Ep.40: Guns & Grit - A Satanist's Take on the Right to Bear Arms

# Satanists Nextdoor
# Ep.40: Guns & Grit - A Satanist's Take on the Right to Bear Arms

[Lilin Lavin]
Welcome, dear listeners, to Satanist Next Door. We're your hosts, Lilin Lavin and Tommy Lavin. Whether you're an open-minded, curious onlooker or a fellow Satanist-seeking camaraderie, our goal is to share our personal experiences and delve into the intricate tapestry of Satanism in our daily lives, occasionally inviting other guests to share their unique perspectives, leaving no pentagram unturned.

We'll explore how our beliefs shape our views on society, dive into struggles and triumphs we've encountered, and reveal the humanity that unites us all. So grab your favorite chalice and join us on this captivating journey. Satanist Next Door is ready to peel back the curtain and offer you a glimpse into our world, one captivating episode at a time.

[Tommy Lavin]
Hello and welcome to another episode of Satanist Next Door. We have had a really busy weekend. We had a baby shower.

So we were going to be grandparents. And so this podcast almost didn't go out, but we were able to carve out enough time to touch on the subject.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. And I think you got a request in from a listener.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. So we had a listener email. Shannon emailed and said, I was wondering if you could do a show discussing the Satanist perspective on gun ownership.

I'm a Satanist and I believe in responsible gun ownership. And I think there should be an end in here. And I believe my body has the right not to be around guns.

So kind of both sides of it. You know, I believe that people, the way I interpreted this email was, I believe people have the right to responsible gun ownership, but me as an individual, I also have the right not to be around guns. And I agree with that.

If you don't want to be around a gun, you shouldn't be forced to be around guns.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. I think, you know, one of the things we talk about a lot is how Satanism is interpreted differently among each individual. And then on top of it, I believe gun ownership and the right to bear arms, the things that come with that, that is definitely interpreted differently, individual to individual, even among gun owners.

Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
You can't get 10 NRA people in a room together to agree on it.

[Lilin Lavin]
Right. So, I mean, when it comes to this subject, I think we can only really discuss it as individuals, our views, our personal views, and those happen to be views also shared as us being Satanist. So I think you're going to find no matter where you go or who you talk to anywhere, there's very differing views on guns.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. And the state we live in, okay. The right not to have guns close near you, it's kind of out the window because we live in Texas.

And so they kind of let any idiot strap a gun on and walk around with whatever they want. They don't even need to be licensed anymore. So to me, that's not responsible gun ownership.

You know, I did agree with concealed carry when you had to go get a license. And the training. And the Yahoo should be able to just strap on a gun, walk around.

I mean, we go grocery shopping, and I see people with guns on, you know, tucked into their jeans or whatnot. And I'm like, you think the apples are gonna get you? You know?

[Lilin Lavin]
And I think, unfortunately, again, speaking from someone in Texas, and things we've seen, things we we've heard of, and there have been shootings at shopping centers, there have been shootings at grocery stores. So I understand where some people may feel, yes, that that's something that is going to help protect them. However, if individuals aren't doing routine target practice, if they're not keeping up on their firearm, cleaning, maintain, all the things that comes with owning a gun, you know, there are definitely issues that come with that.

And more people statistically are likely to be harmed by well intended gun owners in these situations. And then, you know, obviously, you don't want anybody getting killed at all. But you often end up with with mistakes, even from trained officers.

Yes. Mistakes happen. And it's not always the best situation.

So I feel like it just creates a worse situation out of an already bad situation.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. So what we can really talk about is us as and I'll be honest, we we own guns. We have children as well.

Our guns are locked in a safe. Our children are aware of the guns. They know the rules around the guns that we've taken all curiosity of guns away from them.

And we're on, you know, our youngest child is 15. Now. We've never had one of our children and our oldest is about 25.

We've never had one of our children sneak in and play around with the guns because we were, you know, we talked to him. We educated him.

[Lilin Lavin]
And it helps. I think the oldest two, they did hunter's safety certification training. Both of us have been very active in sustainable hunting for quite a long time.

Sustainable hunting just being where we believe in helping to care for the environment that animals use. Caring for animals, orphaned animals should be nurtured and cared for. It's a full circle thing.

So when we do go out and hunt, we're very careful to know that we are targeting animals that are within the harvesting age, correct size, correct weight. And then we're making sure that we have clear shots because harming an animal and making them suffer more than is necessary, because you're never going to do this without causing some harm. But respecting where you're getting your food from.

I am an omnivore. I do eat that way. This is what I choose for myself and my body.

And even though I'm doing that, I feel less crappy, to be honest. Personally, I'm choosing to hunt my food knowing that it's not sitting and suffering over a long period of time. Now, there are sustainable farms.

There are a lot of other options. Hunting is not the only way to get food that is actually ethically sourced and responsible. But it was something I felt important about.

So we got into shooting and things because of the interest in wanting to do the ethical, sustainable hunting. Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
And we only hunted what we ate. So no trophy, nothing like that. Now, in Texas, it's a little bit different because the rules are different down here and stuff like that.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, we stopped hunting when we moved back.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, we stopped hunting when we when we came back here just because of the way that Texas does hunting. But we still own guns. I still carry a gun, but I carry my gun only if I'm going on a trip.

So like when we're in a car and I'll get to the other part where I think you were going with that and I carry my gun with me if we go for walks at night, but it's concealed. And that's the difference is I think when I see people walking around with an AK-47 over their shoulder or, you know, just, you know, kind of showing off that they have a gun, my brain goes to two things. First is if I'm a bad guy, you've made yourself my first target, because I know you're carrying a weapon.

And secondly, it looks like you're just showing off. You know, you're, you're, you're carrying this for the, you know, a reason to just to show off. And I think where you were going was when I said in the car was the trip that we took.

[Lilin Lavin]
Oh, no, that was that's separate. No, I was gonna say I don't think we actually carried to the extent we do at this point. Well, actually, at all, I can say for sure until they did the open carry.

And we had talked about it quite a bit actually before. And we decided since all kinds of people that we don't know, we don't know their intentions, we don't know their level of training, we don't know any kind of anything. We didn't start carrying until after we knew there was just random individuals always around us with guns, because we felt like, well, if we're going to have to be surrounded by it, we should be prepared.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, yeah. And that is the other part too, is I did not carry outside of my house until the laws in Texas were changed. And then when any who could just throw something over their shoulder, and you don't know what they're going to do, it just made sense.

But again, mine's concealed, nobody knows I have it with me unless I either tell them, which also brings up a very good point from the listener's email, which is you shouldn't put some in my mind, a responsible gun owner shouldn't expose somebody to being around a gun without their knowledge or without their consent. We went on a trip with some Satanists and all the way across Texas. And so for me, when I go on long car trips, I take a pistol with me, but it's hidden, it's concealed.

And you made sure that you told everybody that was riding with us, by the way, Tommy brings his weapon with him. If you have a with that, please let us know. So we can either make other arrangements or what, you know, we didn't know exactly what we would do.

Somebody said, no, I probably would have just left the gun and not brought it. But I did give the people, I said, by the way, you would never even know if it's there. You know, it's not like it's hanging in the back coat, you know, back rack of the truck or something.

And I've got training on it and all of this. And that made the one person that seemed a little nervous about it came back and emailed me back and said, I feel much better after you told me, you know, how you treat a gun. And it was funny, because during the trip, there was an incident at a restaurant.

And I mean, no guns came out or anything like that. But there was, you know, some people that did try and chase us and stuff like that, because of what we were doing. And he actually, I think I remember saying, now I understand why you bring it down with you when you go on long trips.

And I was like, yeah, you hope to never have to use it. You hope to never need it.

[Lilin Lavin]
I think the goal is always to never want to use it, but to be prepared if you should be in a situation and even still having a gun doesn't mean you're not going to be harmed. Yeah, having a gun doesn't mean you're going to be not held liable if something were to occur. It's really, in my mind, a lot of gun ownership is a false sense of security.

I'm not trying to diminish people that have them. Again, we are gun owners. But I think our country has a serious gun problem.

And the only reason that we've gotten to the point we are is because so many people are acting out of fear, or acting out of some false sense of patriotism. And one of the things we talk about a lot is the Second Amendment and the way I feel it's been perverted. And I think we share that.

To really push this narrative of being able to defend against the government should it go rogue and people disagree, that really makes me feel sad for people. Because if the government were truly to decide that it wanted to act maliciously, they have such an advancement of weapons that even 15 of the most heavily armed people in our country stuck together in defensive positions with strategic outfits. You're not hiding and overtaking the government with tanks and drones and planes and missiles.

It's great to want to defend what you've worked hard for. I do understand the desire. But at the end of the day, it's not like you're just going to go into this situation, you're going to end someone's life, and your life is going to go on like it was before.

That is not a realistic scenario. No.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. And so again, as Satanists, you're going to hear a variety of answers on this subject. There's going to be some Satanists that are very anti-gun, and they have every right to believe and have the stance that they have.

And I will respect their stance as well. I am very, I don't like the way that our current gun laws are set up. I don't think there's any need for an AK-47.

[Lilin Lavin]
AR-15, M16.

[Tommy Lavin]
If you need a 20-round mag in order to go deer hunting, you shouldn't be deer hunting. And at the end of the day, it's not really a good home defense weapon either, because what are you going to do, blast through all of your, I mean, it's just, that's a gun of war. Those guns are for mass casualties, and they're guns of war.

[Lilin Lavin]
Well, and most people don't understand, in a situation where you are now in a state of anxiety, in a state of alarm, your adrenaline is pumping, unless you've been trained on how to properly utilize a weapon, your brain is going to empty a clip in a very, very quick period of time.

[Tommy Lavin]
Like three seconds.

[Lilin Lavin]
It's not because you're irresponsible, it's because you are in a state of panic. No matter how much you try to compose yourself, unless you've received training and have practiced, which I recommend if you're a gun owner, please do that. Not only for yourself and your family and loved ones, but because if you get in a situation, you need to be able to be calm and be there in the moment.

But when you're going through this, you have to think about the surroundings. You have to think about, you have people behind walls, you have other people in your home. It's not like you could just pop out of your sleep and be immediately armed and defend the situation.

It's great to be able to do that in a situation, but realistically, when most break-ins happen, most things happen, people are in a state of slumber and it takes a very good period of time to become really comprehensive and aware. So realistically, it's so much better to have other means of alert and self-defense. But in the world we live in, it's a reality.

[Tommy Lavin]
It is a reality. I'm also, for me personally, I'm against bump socks. I believe that if somebody has been convicted of stalking, stalking, domestic violence, the boyfriend law.

I am very much for that. Mental illness plays a role.

[Lilin Lavin]
I get a little weird with that one, just because there are so many types of mental illness. And just because someone struggles with a mental illness does not automatically make them less suitable to be able to own a firearm. However, if you struggle with just being extremely susceptible to delusional thinking, or separating from reality on a routine basis, or incredibly suicidal.

I mean, for your own safety, for your own health and well-being. Because if you deal with it, having it there is almost like an invitation to harm yourself. And so if you deal with that, have a safety plan in place and be honest with somebody that can at least feel comfortable removing it from that situation or giving you a place to be.

Because the last thing you want to do, if you're trying to do things responsibly, is put yourself in a situation where you can cause self-harm. Suicide is a huge issue in our country. And unfortunately, self-harm by gun is very high.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, or even harming another person if you're, you know, depending on the state. That's why I was kind of, I don't know if you could tell in my voice when I said mental illness.

[Lilin Lavin]
And I apologize for bringing up that word without putting a kind of warning up. Because self-harm is very difficult for people. And talking about this, you know, I understand it brings a lot with it.

So I do apologize for startling anybody with that.

[Tommy Lavin]
But yeah, I mean, so that's an iffy one for me as well. It really kind of depends. And I'm not the right person to make that judgment call.

But I can definitively say that things like bump stocks, all of that, the stuff that's made for mass casualty, the stuff that's made for wars, weapons of war. I just, I don't see a need for them, you know.

[Lilin Lavin]
Now, if you're a person that enjoys competitive shooting, you know, there is an exception to be made depending provided, you know, you are not, again, like you said, on some kind of list where you've been abusive or put into, you know, any kind of program for being a stalker or abusive individual or have anger management issues. Obviously, there should be a talk about that with those people. But yeah, you know, I do understand that there is competitive hunting.

[Tommy Lavin]
Well, there's competitive shooting and stuff like that. And again, that's fine. You're in a situation where everybody obviously knows you're armed.

You're in a what one would deem a quote unquote safe space.

[Lilin Lavin]
But target hunting is a very big where you're going out and you have all these different, like a setup, really intricate setups where people go out and they emulate a situation. So they go out and do it. And it's really interesting.

Like, I get it. But at the same time, there's a lot more negative, I think, to it.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, there can be, you know, so you ask 100 Satanists this question, you're probably going to get 100 different answers. You know, and it really is about, to me, it's about personal responsibility. And even more so, like I said, if you have children, for, in my opinion, because again, this is all sort of my opinion, especially on this subject.

If you bring a gun into a home with a child, you have to have a safe. But you also don't want to hide the fact that you have. You don't want to open up the door for curiosity.

Age appropriately. Age appropriately. Yeah.

You know, because curiosity is where a lot of kids get in trouble. They find something. They're like, oh, wow, what's this?

I didn't know, blah, blah, blah. And then bad things happen. You know, I grew up in Texas.

And I grew up in the time in Texas where you walked into your friend's house, and they had a gun rack on the wall. And then, you know, everybody just knew, you don't touch the gun rack. You know, and their people had gun racks in the back of their trucks and stuff like that.

Obviously, I do not believe that the world we're in right now is that maybe I'm saying is the right place for people to be driving around with gun racks and rifles and shotguns and stuff like that in the back of their trucks.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, I think what you're saying is there's a big, it's a state of heightened tensions. And I think it allows for a worse situation than, you know, if we didn't have guns, obviously, it wouldn't be as bad. It's not to say, I mean, there's lots of things that happen without guns.

But realistically, the carnage and the harm caused by guns is unmatched.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I mean, you'll hear people say, well, people were, you know, harming each other long before guns. Yeah, that's true. But, you know, if you have a knife or sword or something like that, you're not going to take 20 people out in three seconds.

You know, that's just not going to happen.

[Lilin Lavin]
Well, and the other thing, unfortunately, we've seen is the mass casualty events that happen that most disproportionately harm younger people, people in situations like schools. And this is a very strong indicator of why we need to be very cautious on the kind of people that have access to guns, the way they can access guns, the responsibility involved. And we recently saw two parents that were held accountable for a mass casualty, or I don't think it was a mass casualty, but it's still a situation where their child got a hold of a gun and because of their access, they caused harm.

And the gun belonged to the child. The parents did have access and control technically of the weapon. And I think that that aided in it.

And there was many indications that the child had been struggling with serious issues, which indicated that they really shouldn't have had access to a firearm because they were struggling with a lot of things. I'm not going to play, you know, like I know them or their situation. I just know what I saw throughout the trial and throughout what happened through different news stories and outlets.

So I'm not going to pretend I know their situation. I don't. But I do know that with everything going on, that was probably a poor judgment call.

But this is a good thing that we're starting to see. Do I want all parents to be held accountable for all of their children's misbehaviors or traumatic situations that they cause on other people or situations of mass harm like that? No.

But if you're involved in some way and you knew and you were aware and you didn't do this.

[Tommy Lavin]
I mean, if you knowingly purchase your child a weapon, and especially if there's all sorts of signs there and you leave it out in the open for them, it's not locked away. We're like, only, you know, the password or something like that. Then, yeah, absolutely.

You need to be held responsible if something happens. Again, my personal opinion. Other people could disagree with me, but I believe there needs to be more responsibility.

[Lilin Lavin]
That being said, I think our country and individuals in this country have to have a big conversation about what we're doing. You'll hear a lot of politicians on all different sides talk about gun ownership and why they support different things. One of the things I want people to be aware of is when we're talking about certain people, they're backed by organizations like the NRA.

These individuals receive paychecks based on certain ratings they were given, the way that they deal with certain situations like a mass casualty event, the way that they discuss certain things, the way that they push certain things. So when you're hearing things from politicians, I ask you to please carefully look at their motivation and don't use that as a reason to justify one thing or another. I understand that a lot of people have a strong tendency to want to maintain their right to bear arms.

I understand it's strongly rooted in our country's history. I was raised in part by someone that was a Marine and that was in combat that had a strong stance on gun ownership. They were incredibly careful with it.

They were very much into teaching people about maintenance, but they did have concerns about our direction as a country with the overabundance of access to guns. And but they taught responsibility. They taught the consequence.

And we've tried to do that with our own kids. Anytime you point that at anything, that's the potential end of whatever's on the other end. And you have to be okay with that reality.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. Yeah. So for me, it comes down to responsibility.

And that's what I got out of this email was responsible gun ownership. And I agree with Shannon that part of responsible gun ownership is letting people around you know. Now we've had events where we've had congregation members ask me because we were going out into the country and we've had congregation members ask me, can you bring your gun?

I know there's going to be all of these other people here that are going to be very angry and they're going to hate us. Can you at least, and they'll trust me to do that. And I will say.

[Lilin Lavin]
But the reality, even in that situation is depending on where we're going, the event venue has a say. Yes. The people that are organizing have a say.

We want to encourage people if they're going to be stewards of gun advocacy, that you do it appropriately. So you have an obligation to inform and respect people's decision about guns. And whatever you might feel about it, you don't have a right to push that on to other people.

So as Shannon said, they have a right to own guns, but they also have a right not to be and put in a situation where they're around them without consent.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, exactly. I mean, you like we see in Texas and every state's laws are different, you know, so this is, this is also when you talk about the subject, it's it, the, the, the way that it comes across really depends on where you're located. And so if you don't live in Texas or you don't understand the laws in Texas here, it is not uncommon at all to see people walking around.

I mean, you would think you're back in like the wild west with the whole, you know, they got the gun on their hip, like they're, they're just waiting for high noon or something, you know? And I don't like that. I really don't to, to even as a gun owner myself, that makes me feel uncomfortable because I'm like, why do you feel the need to have to show that off?

It makes me question, you know, what their intent is. I did not have a problem with concealed weapon. And my father, who was a pilot, was one of the first pilots that was armed after 9-11 had to go through a very strict, rigorous, rigorous program in order to be an armed pilot.

And he told us some of the, you know, kind of the, this is, you know, some of it and, and yeah. And so I also understand because he was pilot, the laws on airplanes that you will normally have some sort of a marshal on an airplane that is armed. Nobody else knows where that marshal is except for the pilots, you know, and they know exactly what seat that person is in.

[Lilin Lavin]
And that's tricky because when, like Shannon said, I have a right to not be in a situation. I understand, it's just, I think it gets a little murky when you're dealing with public safety and security. So I think that more applies when you're around people, you have the right to be aware when you're in a group because you're at risk too.

So I think, you know, obviously following the best science, following the best information, knowing, you know, the reality of what's happening out in the world, we can only control so much. Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
And I mean, and in Texas, they're arming teachers in some schools and I totally disagree with that because I'm like, you know, a teacher doesn't need, I don't care how quote unquote well trained they are, that doesn't belong in a school.

[Lilin Lavin]
And I would not think it's an unfair situation, honestly, to put somebody that's already, in my opinion, usually overworked and overburdened into a situation where they may inadvertently cause, you know, irreversible harm to their students. So it's a horrible situation to put people in, people that are trained military personnel, law enforcement personnel who are trained to do this, who do this as part of the function of their job. They have to live with a lot of difficulty.

And so it's, again, it's not something to be taken lightly. A lot of people, I don't think, think about the long-term ramifications of these things. Would I feel bad in a situation where I was protecting myself or my loved ones in utilizing a gun?

No. Would I feel bad that I have had to take someone's life? I feel like I would.

And I would feel a lot of resentment toward the individual putting me in that situation. But I'd never want to have to do that. It seems like an excessive thing to waste someone's existence because they made poor decisions.

And I hate that I would have to ever do something like that. Would I do it? Without question.

Would I like doing it? Absolutely not.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, yeah. And again, the laws in every state differ. Texas, the person doesn't even have to come into your house.

You can, you know, shoot them through the door. I would never do that. As long as they're on the outside of my house and they're not a threat to my family, I don't have a problem with it.

Again, somebody comes in at three o'clock in the morning. They're not there to give me the winning lottery numbers. I have my children and my family to protect.

I would have no problem defending my home. But I do have a problem with people. Some of the things we've seen with people getting shot, turning around in driveways, you know, all sorts of stupid shit like that.

And I think that's where, again, there's too many irresponsible gun owners. They're just itching. They're itching for a reason to use it.

And I do not think those people belong having weapons.

[Lilin Lavin]
But yeah, I think we've covered most of everything. But the Shannon's thing, I think it's very individualistic, just like Satanism itself. I think every Satanist is going to have a different perspective and they're entitled to that.

What I just, I'm going to just reiterate the same thing we talked about. Consent is important. That applies to things like exposing people to guns and putting them in situations where you having a gun could put them in an unsafe situation.

So, you know, obviously that's a big thing. And then just having it to use as a status symbol or using it to intimidate. I don't agree with that.

Yeah, yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
Being around polling centers where, I mean, again, they've brought Texas and I know some other states way, way, way back into this. And I think they've gone way too far with that. Again, my personal opinion on that.

And I'm sure this episode might even upset some people. And for that, I do apologize if you have a different stance.

[Lilin Lavin]
Well, feel free to share it with us. Feel free to join us in a discussion, have a conversation. The only way that we can understand one another and how to live in a better society for all people is to try and take other people's opinions into consideration.

That means I'm going to listen to you. It doesn't mean I'm necessarily going to actively change something that I firmly agree with. But perhaps we could at least come to an understanding that though we may have differing opinions, we can still respect one another and do what we feel is necessary to live in a way that is respectful to everyone.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. So since this one, I felt was a subject that we didn't have to go on for an hour on. It fit really well today, trying to make sure that we get this podcast out with how busy we've been.

We're going to be grandparents. It's actually very exciting. Starting to hit now.

[Lilin Lavin]
I think it's hard, you know, when you can't physically see. So it's really exciting. And I'm looking forward to when this individual arrives.

So yes, it will be. It will be fun. But yeah, that's another thing, you know, safety, safety.

So making sure that you're responsible, respectful and considerate of people around you, gun ownership or not. Respect each other's differences. Listen to each other's opinions.

Stand firmly in what you believe is correct. But do keep in mind, other people have a right to feel safe. And sometimes that means not being around guns.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, absolutely agree. So with that, I think we can go ahead and call this podcast done. Yes.

Have a good evening. Good afternoon. Good morning, wherever the hell you're at in the world.

And Hail Satan. Hail Satan.

[Lilin Lavin]
Hail Satan.