Ep.39: To Reveal or Conceal - Satanyms in Satanism

# Satanists Nextdoor
# Ep.39: To Reveal or Conceal - Satanyms in Satanism

[Lilin Lavin]
Welcome dear listeners to Satanist Next Door. We're your hosts, Lillin Lavin and Tommy Lavin. Whether you're an open-minded curious onlooker or a fellow Satanist-seeking camaraderie, our goal is to share our personal experiences and delve into the intricate tapestry of Satanism in our daily lives, occasionally inviting other guests to share their unique perspectives, leaving no pentagram unturned.

We'll explore how our beliefs shape our views on society, dive into struggles and triumphs we've encountered, and reveal the humanity that unites us all. So grab your favorite chalice and join us on this captivating journey. Satanist Next Door is ready to peel back the curtain and offer you a glimpse into our world, one captivating episode at a time.

[Tommy Lavin]
Hello and welcome to another episode of Satanist Next Door. Today we are going to be talking about pseudonyms, or as we lovingly call them in the Satanic community, satanims. And we have a guest on our podcast today.

Jessi, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself?

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Yeah, my name is Jessi Aumiou'xx, and I am known on the East Coast as a satanic baker. I run my company, Sugar Anarchy, out of Pennsylvania, and it's super fun because I don't use any pseudonyms.

[Tommy Lavin]
You're out in the open for everybody to see, which, you know, and some of that, you know, that's something each person has to kind of figure out. Can they do that? Are they in the right environment to do that?

Like you said, you're an independent baker, so you own your own company, so you have a little bit more freedom, unlike, you know, if you work for a professional agency or something like that. But there's definitely reasons why people are open, and then there's reasons why people use a pseudonym and, you know, kind of try and hide. So I thought we would talk through some of that today.

I will apologize in advance if you hear thunder or anything in the background. We have a thunderstorm going through, so try and filter as much of that out as I can. But Mother Nature does what Mother Nature's going to do.

[Lilin Lavin]
So yeah. So why don't you let us know what is it that compelled you to be out in the open as a Satanist, as a business owner in your community?

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
So when I started my bakery in 2019, I didn't intend for my personal Satanism to become the forefront of my bakery. And I will take a moment to say that I'm not sponsored by TST, and I'm not directly affiliated with TST. My company is not. I just happen to be a TST member, and I use the Hail Satan as part of my logo.

But I do work with TST a lot. I work with a lot of local congregations. I've worked with headquarters multiple times.

And when I originally started, I didn't intend for my bakery to be, you know, this weird, controversial thing. I mean, I was controversial, for sure, because when I first started, we did Tasty and Offensive, and we kind of made our name by sending cookies that said whatever you wanted to Senators.

[Lilin Lavin]
Nice. Oh, that's cool.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
That was how we started. And, you know, well, we'll send cookies to your ex that say mean things. They'll taste delicious, but they'll say mean things.

And then one day, we were, I was at an event, and I was selling cookies, and somebody had come up to me and said, Hey, aren't you a member of TST? And I said, Oh, yeah, I am. I have been for the majority of my adult life, actually.

And their response was Hail Satan, eat cookies. And I was like, you know, that would be a great business motto. And from that point on, we changed our logo, we have our cute little version of Baphomet, and everything.

But I never decided to start using a pseudonym, because I didn't use one originally. So I already had a customer base under my real name. And I didn't want to change my name and have my customer base get confused or lose out on that.

And at the same time, I do I own my own company. So it's not like I have to worry about my boss finding out, you know, that I'm a big bad Satan. And at this point in my life, you know, the family that is going to disown me has, and the people who, you know, aren't going to support me don't.

So I don't have a whole lot left to lose, at this point in my personal life. Um, but it is an interesting thing where I feel like there are definitely people who are customers of mine, who almost trust me more because I use my actual name.

[Tommy Lavin]
Nice. I can see where that makes sense.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Interesting. That's an interesting caveat that I've noticed is that there are people who I think would be less likely to buy from me, I guess, if I used a pseudonym. And I don't know for that, if that's 100% true or not.

But I do have a wide base of people who come to me, you know, because of the, you know, the satanic branding, right? You were a queer owned company, we're a native owned company. We're a satanic company.

And we're also a veteran of company.

[Lilin Lavin]
That's a lot of really amazing things to represent.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
It's fun.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. And I mean, I always tell people when they're new, when they're coming in to, you know, baby satanists, you know, when they're when they're first coming in, it's one of those discussions that we kind of have. And it's like, you know, you need to figure out what you want to do.

You know, do you want to be out in the open where people can find you and possibly stalk you or send you death threats or, you know, all the things that we get, even when we use a pseudonym, we still get them when they just don't necessarily find your address or anything like that, you know, to put out there in the world? Or do you want to use a pseudonym? And a lot of people were in Texas.

So the environment down here is a little bit more hostile towards satanists than other areas of the country. And so a lot of people think about it for a little while and they're like, yeah, you know what, you're probably right. I should use a pseudonym and actually sort of break out and create my own account and go through that process of sort of building up that account for almost like this side of your personality.

Like I have a Twitter account for my pseudonym. It's that part of my personality. It's where I can talk safely, talk about all this stuff I want to talk about, and it's not going to affect my professional life.

And then I have another one under my real name where I do my professional stuff. And it's kind of sad because I see it a lot because I'm in the business world. So I see a lot of professionals.

I deal with a lot of executives, a lot of managers, and I can't even count how many managers send me an email. And at the bottom of their email is their signature. And then below that Psalm, whatever, or some Bible quote that they have on there.

And that's perfectly acceptable in the business world. But if I was to do that and throw one of the seven tenants on there, or just say TST minister, oh my, I know we would lose client. I, you know, just shit would hit the fan.

And it shows this level of discrimination that, you know, we're just not there yet where you can actually just be yourself. Even though TST is a recognized religion in the United States, there's all, you know, most of all that boogeyman stuff has been, you know, disproven where we're not taking cats in the middle of the night. We're not taking babies or anything.

Right. Right. Unless we're rescuing cats, you know, from, from a swimming pool or something like that.

Um, you know, but still, that stigma still attached to it. And, you know, that's kind of fucked up.

[Lilin Lavin]
So for you, Jesse, well, yeah, go ahead.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
No, go ahead.

[Lilin Lavin]
I was gonna say, how are you? How's the experience been for you, I guess, for pros and cons, being out and open with your own name? How has that worked for you?

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Um, well, I guess the first real thing that I had to grapple with was I, I really had to have, for lack of a better term, I had to have a real come to Jesus moment with myself. Because all of a sudden, I realized that my family, who are very religious people, who are very Republican, religious conservative people are about to know everything about my life. And I had to sit down and say, Okay, well, I just have to be okay with that.

And either they're going to support me or they're not, and whatever choice they make, that's on them. Because that is how my family found out that I was saying it.

[Lilin Lavin]
Okay, wow.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And that's okay, because it was easier than me.

[Lilin Lavin]
Probably.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
But, you know, I have my email signature says, they'll say unique cookies. And we have a lot of people who will Google, you know, bakeries near me and my bakery will come up. And they won't do any research because you know, they don't actually care who they're buying the cookies for.

It's usually like a co worker, right? And they're like, I just need a quick dozen cookies. So they'll hit the email link, and they'll email me, Hey, I'm wondering about, you know, how's it?

How do I get a dozen cookies from you? And I'll email them back. And I'm very pleasant.

But as soon as they see my email signature, I won't hear from them again. Similar, the back of my truck. So my car says sugar anarchist, they'll say unique cookies, and big letters across the back of my truck.

[Lilin Lavin]
Nice.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Which is really great to ward off the neighborhood kids.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
But I do often get beat that or flipped off for no reason, or whatever else on the road because of it. So there is definitely a lot that comes with it. The other thing that I feel very strongly about is I have a very impressionable preteen, right?

That lives with me. And she, I feel really strongly that it's important for her to see, you know, me deal with this the way that I am. Because she's seeing me and see how proud I am of myself and willing to be myself.

Not that people who use pseudonyms aren't proud. That's not what I'm trying to say.

[Tommy Lavin]
Totally understand what you're saying.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
But you know, she's seeing me be me, you know, be the person who I am and not apologize for it at all. And I feel like that's a really important lesson for her.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, it's a huge lesson. I think you can't set a better example than to be proud of you and to stand up for who you are and what you represent in a way that can be difficult for a lot of people for a variety of reasons. So I think it's a big statement for your child to know it's okay to do that and how to deal with that controversy.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. And I could say we can relate on that one. Because although I use a pseudonym online, in the real world, I don't I don't hide my Satanism.

I wear my TST shirts out my all of my neighbors, you know, they've seen hail Satan for the last seven or eight years that we've lived here. You know, so it's not a secret we go to the store we you know, I am who I am in public. When when people just find me and Lillian on her car, she's got the TST stickers on the back of it as well, which, you know, we've had a kid's mom kind of, you know, kind of uncomfortable, uncomfortable with it, which, you know, then we had to sort of have the talk and, you know, then invite her over.

And then she saw that we're not crazy people or anything like that.

[Lilin Lavin]
But did still caution her child that if we ever did any weird talking or had candles that they should be called immediately if we started speaking in Latin and lighting candles.

[Tommy Lavin]
She was supposed to leave immediately at that point. She told her mom, she was like, Mom, you're an idiot. That's not who they are.

That's not what they do.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
But so so excited when I see TST stickers on other cars.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yes.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Like this weird secret. There's a person who I'm often behind in the school drop off who has a TST sticker at my daughter's school. And I'm not ever in a position where I can get out and like knock on the window and be like, Oh, hey, who are you?

[Tommy Lavin]
Hey, nice to meet you.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Did you know we have a local congregation? Right?

[Lilin Lavin]
Yes. Yeah, I've adorned my rear with a few of the congregations from Texas because as we get together, we swap stickers so that we can support one another. And I've just proudly put them back there.

And then I think I have one campaign sticker from the Protect Kid project, because the Protect Children project because we were there hanging out with them. So I've got those and then I've got my little fiery religious building. And a lot of people they take that wrong.

It's not about burning churches. It's about burning the nationalism away like it's anti nationalism. But you know, I still have to quantify it usually.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Yeah, yeah, I totally understand. I mean, I sell magnets say be gay, healthy and eat cookies. All the time.

And it's one of my favorite things to put on my back of the car because I'm at that point offending everyone who's going to be offended.

[Tommy Lavin]
Exactly. You know, I am there. I am like a walking offensive billboard, you know, in in some areas.

And it is surprising. I'll walk through some of the stores here. And again, we live in a very conservative area in Texas.

And every once in a while, as we're walking through the store, somebody will walk up and they'll be like, Hail Satan, love your shirt, you know, and it's like, Yeah, it does. It does feel good, you know. But like we were saying, that's nothing against people who have to use a pseudonym and can't even wear the garb out in public or anything like that, because you just don't know what their life story is the reason why.

And because there is still so much stigma against Satanism. I totally understand. And I back any person that needs to have that layer of protection there.

[Lilin Lavin]
Oh, yeah. Well, in my account, especially like social media used to be my name. It was very much like all the time me as I was, and then I started getting some very specific threads, specific to the point where they were like, we know where you are, we know where you live, we know your kid, like, it was very specific.

So then I was like, okie dokie, we're gonna go ahead and pull these two things apart and kind of try and keep them separate. And it's helped. It doesn't help the crazies that definitely spend time to actually stalk you and figure you out.

But it did help a lot, a lot more than I realized it would. Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
No, it's amazing what kind of lengths they'll go through to like, scare you, though. Oh, yeah. It's absolutely astounding to me.

You know, I, I get in fights with with my school board pretty frequently, because I donate stuff to schools, and then the religious people find out that I donated cookies to their children. They're eating Satan for the curse.

[Tommy Lavin]
Now they've got to go pray over him because they let a demon into their body.

[Lilin Lavin]
So that is a good question, though, as a baker, because we've all seen the news, right? There are certain groups that have decided to use their religion to kind of deny people things like wedding cakes or certain things. Have you ever turned anybody away?

Or would you do that because maybe they were Christian and wanted to do a special celebration?

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
So absolutely not. That's, that's not my it's not my job to judge you. That's not what I do.

I have made multiple baked items for a lot of different religious gatherings I did. I've done christenings. I've done I've done a lot that's been sold at church bake sales, which is really funny because nobody knows that it's me.

That is somebody bought cookies from me and then they sold them at the church.

[Tommy Lavin]
That's just like an internal funny thing or you just got to be laughing to yourself.

[Lilin Lavin]
But it's almost like baked goods don't have any specific denomination or affiliation. It's a cookie.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
It's very strange. But yes, you're correct. I've been around baked goods for the last 10 years of my life professionally.

And never once has one tried to turn me into their own religion. I even go as far as I have a really beautiful contact list. So I'm not a kosher baker, because I can't I I'm a cottage baker.

So that means that my studio, my bakery is at home. But if you contact me, I'm more than happy to get in touch with a kosher baker for you. I have a really good friend who's a kosher baker so that we can work together that way.

[Lilin Lavin]
Wow, it's almost like you've built interfaith connections.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Because that's the logical way to run a business. Nice.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
I know. That's alarming news. Don't tell anyone.

It's a secret.

[Tommy Lavin]
I know. I always see it when people have when that whole bakery debacle was going down about, you know, not doing cakes for the LGBTQIA community and all that. I'm like, what sane business person turns down revenue, you know, and not only turns down a single sale, but then puts their name out there and says, Hey, this whole community of all of these people don't come by for me.

[Lilin Lavin]
And it's ugly, though, because you listen to Jesse saying Jesse still will do for anybody, right? Provided they're, you know, not doing something overly the top, like gross or something, as far as I understand.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Right. So I do have like basic rules. I will not do anti things.

I will not do something that's anti LGBTQ. I will not do something that's anti trans. I will do something that exists for the purpose of hurting people.

[Lilin Lavin]
Right. That's almost common sense. Holy shit.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
That's not a thing I'll do. And also, I will not put fetuses on cupcakes.

[Lilin Lavin]
That's the line.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
That's my line. I can't do it. It wasn't even that they were a pro-life group.

And, and I didn't support them. It was really if they had just wanted regular cupcakes, I would have made them.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. So like vaginas would have been cool.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
They wanted me to put fetuses on the cupcakes. They even gave me like they had the mold for it.

[Tommy Lavin]
Oh, I have so many questions.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
No, I will not be doing I'm sorry, you need to find someone else.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I appreciate it.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Locally, we do have a lot of bakeries that are avidly anti LGBTQ.

[Lilin Lavin]
Which is crazy.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And I have people who I've catered at this point, hundreds of weddings. And I want to say that more than half of them have been queer weddings. And I have people who come up to me and they say, you know, we were so afraid to talk to the bakery.

We're so afraid to go to this bakery, tell them that we needed a wedding cake, and that we were the two people getting married. But, you know, we make a point to like, we fly a rainbow flag at our tent. Not only do we fly a rainbow flag, we we fly the rainbow TSC flag at our tent.

[Lilin Lavin]
Nice. Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
We've just created this beautiful community. And we call it the community of outcasts. We've just created this grouping of people who support each other for who they are.

And it doesn't mean that we all believe the same thing.

[Tommy Lavin]
Imagine that.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
We are such good friends with like, so many, we work with pagan markets a lot. So we live really close to Gettysburg, which is our Salem. And we work a lot with a lot of the metaphysical shops in Gettysburg.

We do a ton of metaphysical markets. I even teach a class on how to bake with metaphysical ingredients.

[Lilin Lavin]
Oh, that's cool.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And it's not necessarily that, you know, I do witchcraft or I believe in witchcraft as a Wiccan. But I have that knowledge. And people really like being presented that knowledge by somebody who does it professionally.

And I'm more than happy to fill that void for those people who need it.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, we get along really well with our local pagan community as well. We go to their marketplace. They invite us to their marketplace.

[Lilin Lavin]
On the solstices.

[Tommy Lavin]
On the solstices and things like that. And it's one of our best events. You know, it's a wonderful community.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, I look forward to it. Because I think I've had the deepest conversations with people who are just curious and open minded. The majority of people that come to those events are also curious and open minded.

And they're just explore, which is nice.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Yeah, we don't, I would never, I would never be like, Oh, you're awfully Christian. I'm going to make cookies for you.

[Tommy Lavin]
I won't put a cross on the cookie. Although, you know, my hands will burn if I, if I, you know, put that cross on there. It's, it is.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
You would be surprised at what people have said. So we, I had somebody who personally attacked me when I, when I gave cookies to this school. And what I ended up doing with that, because I am terribly sarcastic and kind of an asshole.

Sometimes I ended up making, I ended up making t-shirts with her quotes that she said to me. And we sold them and then donated the money to the CTO.

[Lilin Lavin]
I love you so much right now.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Awesome. So it said, the one said sugar anarchy selling Satan's cookies to all God's children since 2023. And then we had another one that said, I guess they're okay if you like eating Satan's cookies.

And then it was like, quoted as some lady named Christy from the internet.

[Tommy Lavin]
I love that. That is awesome. Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I think this same subject brings me back into the subject of, of why doxing somebody is, is such a bad thing, you know, for me, doxing is almost one is, is one of those unforgivable sort of activities, because, you know, if you're a Satanist or, or I wouldn't say any sort of alternative.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, I would say it applies. That's funny. It applies to anything really.

I mean, if you are an individual who's not comfortable for whatever reason, using your, your name that you're given name, um, you know, there's tons of different reasons in schools and people use nicknames because it's just the way they choose to be seen and prefer not to. Sometimes it's because you're in a transition and you're actually moving into a new identity. And so there's tons of reasons why people choose to do that.

And I think for alternate religions, like ours, a lot of people do it because safety, job, um, family, very close ties to a lot of people in the community. So they don't do as much locally, but they'll do things more broadly and their involvement really relies on them being able to kind of keep the rest of it back. But then there are people like you who are able to be out there as who they are because they've already established themselves.

They have a decent clientele and people know them for what, what they've done, the good things they've done. I know you said you volunteer with the school routinely.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Yeah. And, and I, and I volunteer with TST. So we did the hail program, the, that happens here in Dillsburg that, um, it's through the afterschool Satan club. We have one here, it's called hail and we donated cookies and a whole cookie decorating class to them.

And it was so much fun. The kids had so much fun doing it.

[Lilin Lavin]
Nice.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And, um, I also offer, um, my service. So this is something that I find really interesting. Um, so I recently did the, the TST Philly held a bake sale and, um, I donated cookies to the bake sale, of course.

But the other thing that I was able to offer was, um, business experience, uh, specifically legal, like the legal ease of being a baker.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yep.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And, um, a quote that I find myself repeating multiple times as I'm asked by different congregations is, uh, if you're going to hold a bake sale, that's fine. But remember that people are here, that people are here to come for you. Um, and that's a weird thing that we have to deal with is that people are always looking for an excuse to get the Satanists in trouble.

Right? Right. So, you know, you can't say that that's vegan if it wasn't produced in a licensed vegan kitchen, because it doesn't matter if it is vegan or not.

Somebody will be like, oh, I got sick off it. Doesn't matter if they did or not. You're not going to be able to prove that wasn't your cup.

[Tommy Lavin]
Right, right.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And it's not, you know, it's not a bunch of little ladies at a church for, you know, a great example, but they're, they're coming like they want to find our, our, our fuck up.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah.

They're always on the lookout for it. Once, once the Satan word is, is attached to it, kind of always on high alert, which, you know, like we were, we were talking about when I see other Satanists docs, other Satanists, it really upsets me because I'm like, you of all people should know the possible danger that you're putting this person in. And maybe you don't like the person, but you don't also know if you're putting their family in danger, if they have children, if they have all these other things.

And because you don't like somebody, it isn't a reason to destroy somebody or, or put somebody's life in danger. And that's what can actually happen when people docs people, you know, they're, they're, they're using a Satan name for a reason, you know?

[Lilin Lavin]
Well, and we know teachers that are Satanists that obvious reasons don't want that being made public. And we've definitely seen people try to use that almost as leverage. And that's one of the negatives, I think, to pseudonyms is that people can try to use that as fear tactic to kind of attack people.

Well, if you don't this, that, or the other, we're going to spill the beans. So it's, it's nice not to have that maybe hanging over your head if you don't have to, but it's also important to say, well, that's fine. But you're always going to be the asshole that decided to attack somebody and the most nasty way possible by, by invading their privacy and their trust.

Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
I mean, so I'm I'm sorry. It's such a bizarre concept to me, like, because I guess maybe just the world is a bizarre concept to me because as an adult, like I've gotten death threats just for being a Satanist.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yep.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And never once. And like, I know the people's names who are sending these death threats to me. They're not being shy about it, but never once has it occurred to me to be like, Oh, so could you go take care of that?

[Tommy Lavin]
Right. Right.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Because that's like just an inherently shitty thing to do.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've, we've definitely had our fair share of death threats.

And like I said, I'm, I'm comfortable enough that although I use a pseudonym online, if somebody was to dox me, it would more piss me off, but it wouldn't destroy me. You know, I, I, I know, I, I, I don't think I'd be fired for it or anything like that. I mean, you know, but you never know.

[Lilin Lavin]
But the reality is, you know, depending on what you do, it can bring a lot of negativity to the business and they can lose important clients. And that's an unfortunate reality where that bias that we were just talking about comes into play because not everybody can just simply, you know, get another job or move into a new career and not every business can withstand the negative backlash, especially if you're a community business.

[Tommy Lavin]
Right.

[Lilin Lavin]
Of the local community coming after you and states like Texas, like Florida, Georgia, all these very Bible belt states have enough spiteful people that you'll definitely end up in a bad situation.

[Tommy Lavin]
Oh yeah. And like you said, we have teachers, you know, can you imagine a teacher getting doxed in, in the state of Texas where then all of a sudden you just know somebody is going to open up an investigation on how you're teaching Satan to children or something like you know, what's coming. You just, I mean, so yeah, I mean, there's definitely a reason for some people, which is why I always tell people when they come in, you know, think about, and we've had people that have come in and they started off using their real names and then some people started, you know, kind of following them.

They went out and found their real socials and it was like, oh wow, that happened quick. And it was like, yeah. And they changed, they, they went to using.

Right. Pseudonyms.

[Lilin Lavin]
And I don't know if that's something you've dealt with Jesse, where we've seen the other negative side of using your name is there'll be people that are attracted to the name Satan and the Satanism. And then they'll start trying to kind of almost stalk you in a, in a different way where they're really wanting to be involved in your life and find out things about you and get a little too personal.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Yeah, no, I've dealt with that a little bit, but not super lots. I'm in real life, not, I'm not the nicest person. I'm gonna be honest with you.

And so once people meet me, and I think that's the other thing is that I am not an online presence. I am very much a physical presence in my spaces. So I'm really active in my community.

I'm really active in my kids' schools. And I travel all over the East Coast to sell cookies. Nice.

So I'm a very physical presence. So a lot of times the first time people are hearing about me is to my face.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And I don't always necessarily give off the fuzzy, you should stalk me kind of vibe.

[Tommy Lavin]
See, we get along, we get along great.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Yeah, we would.

[Tommy Lavin]
I mean, my parents or my kids bought me a t-shirt that said, that's Mr. Asshole to you because it's just, it's who I am. And the same thing, we've been so involved in our kids' school. Our kids' schools know who we are.

And I kind of tricked our kids' school. It was kind of funny. So in Texas, they have what's called this 90% rule, which it used to be if you missed school and it was for a valid reason, your parents sent in an excuse, your doctor's appointment, something like that, you were sick.

As long as it was an excused absence, you were good. They've made this law in Texas that the 90% rule where it doesn't matter why you're out. If you miss, if you aren't at school for 90% of the time, you then have to go into either detention or community service.

No ands, ifs, or buts, it doesn't matter the reason why. So I was telling the principal, I was like, well, what the hell is it? Why wouldn't a kid skip then?

I mean, if they're going to get this anyways. You know, I mean, but so they gave us this, our daughter got this because she had missed some days because she was actually sick. And I don't send my kid to school when they're sick, you know, because it's just.

And we provide, yeah, we also provide mental health days.

[Lilin Lavin]
So if our kid is doing well in their grades and doing well otherwise, but they say, you know, I'm feeling super overwhelmed. Can I have a day or two? I'm going to say absolutely, but we have to make sure to just get your work and stay on top of things.

So it doesn't become worse. So we'll do these and offer so many each semester. And so apparently only so much is going to be allowed, regardless of the reason.

If your kid's sick going through who knows what, they don't care. Yeah, they better be there so much so they can get their funding.

[Tommy Lavin]
So yeah. And so the vice principal gave this, and I guess he gave the paper to a couple of kids that were in his office. When he gave it to our daughter, he was like, your parents know how to get a hold of me if they want to talk about this.

And she was like, I was the only one that he said that to. And I was like, yeah, there's a reason for that. And so I sort of backtracked him into a corner where he had told the kids that volunteering at church counts against their community service.

So I had a couple emails back and forth. And I say, I want to make sure I've got all of this right. Blah, blah, blah.

You said volunteering at a church counts. And he came back. He said, yes.

I said, OK, so does that mean like all religious service? All religious organizations? Or do you just specifically mean a Christian church?

He was like, no, religious organizations count. And then I was like, OK. So then I dropped the bomb on him.

And I was like, OK, well, see, we're TST ministers of or we're ministers in the Satanic Temple. And we are a recognized US-based religion. Does this still count?

And he really had no choice but to say yes, because at that point, then it would have, I mean, he would have been blatantly discriminating against. So he just kind of, yep, that'll count. I was like, OK, cool.

But yeah, that was the shortest email I had received from him where the others, you know, he had like long explanations and things in there.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
I will say that that is the thing that I have the most trouble with, with not, with being, you know, open with my name, is I have to sit down with my daughter and have conversations like, hey, if anyone ever bullies you because of me, we need you need to tell me right away. Or, you know, if somebody is in the school, and this is a weird problem that we shouldn't ever have. But if somebody is in the school and asks to take a picture of you and you don't know who they are, say no and find a teacher.

[Tommy Lavin]
Right, right.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Because because we have school board members now who are intentionally, you know, singling out my child so that I can't donate cookies, which is the weirdest thing.

[Lilin Lavin]
Right. So you actually donate not just cookies, right, but your time, right?

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Yeah. So I donate this class and it's a two hour class. And this year I donated 486 of them.

[Lilin Lavin]
Wow. Wow.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And it was and I go around and I help all the kids, you know, teach them how to do it. They get these whole decorated kits. It comes with like six different colors of icing and you get four cookies.

And we always do it around, you know, the winter holiday time. And we make a point like to have specific, you know, we do the Star of David for Hanukkah. We do a menorah for Hanukkah.

We do candles. We do, you know, real basic. We do snowmen and snowflakes for people who don't celebrate.

We do Christmas trees and reindeer. And we try to make sure that we have a really good selection so that all of the kids are represented.

[Lilin Lavin]
Nice.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And it's just it's amazing how ridiculous people get about it.

[Tommy Lavin]
Um, yeah, we've had to have, you know, we've had to have similar conversations with our kids. You know, if if somebody starts doing this, and it was actually funny when we first moved into this neighborhood, we were here probably about a year or two. And our daughter was at some somebody's house.

Like she went to a friend's of a friend's house. And they were like, oh, yeah. And they started talking about the witch's house.

And they were like, yeah, that house over there. That's the witch's house. And she was like, the witch's house, which house are you?

And they started describing it. And she started laughing. She was like, that's my house.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Oh, I have I have a pretty similar story. So I've only lived in. So I currently live in like a townhouse development kind of place where all our houses are attached to each other.

And it's obnoxious. But when I first moved here, like the first week that that we lived here, um, my son, who is neuro divergent and has a lot of trouble hearing, he was outside playing. And some of the older kids in the neighborhood, you know, we're making fun of him.

Or I guess what they said was it like there's a monster that eats new kids. So you have to be careful. And they're just playing around like little kids.

And OK, but my little my little guy comes running in the house, screaming and crying. And so I'm like, OK, let me let me just go out and be like, you know, I'm not here to parent anyone else's children. I feel very strongly about that.

But I go outside and I'm like, hey, if you could not say things like that, that would be great. You know, he already has some problems making friends. Don't say things like that.

And I was like, I'm not going to go talk to your parents. But if I have to, I will, like, believe me.

[Lilin Lavin]
Right.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And as I turned around to walk away, I heard my daughter, my nine year old daughter, go, the scariest thing in this neighborhood isn't any monsters. It's my mother. And so I chuckled.

But at the same time, I was like, Lily, you can't say that to people. My car says Hail Satan on it.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they meant it one way, but people can take it a whole different. Yes.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, you have to. And that's the sad part is you have to be so careful at times as a as a Satanist, because like you said, they're always looking to get you. They're always looking to find that gotcha or something like that, or hell, even make up shit, you know, that then you have to battle against and prove yourself innocent.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Yeah, we've got it. So I've gotten put in positions where, you know, they've called the tribal councils to ask, to say that we were impersonating Native American people, or, you know, ridiculous things that are just like, why would you even think to do that?

[Lilin Lavin]
Right? Because you can't possibly be Native American.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Right. We had somebody demand a military ID off us. Wow.

That's such a bizarre thing to do. Like, do you think that everyone that serves in the military is religious? Because I have some news for you.

[Lilin Lavin]
Well, I mean, even back when it was just Church of Satan, I know they had people carrying the Satanic Bible for people that served because they requested it.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, because it was a recognized religion. Yeah, and I've even had other Satanists who, you know, try and argue with me or something like that. You haven't been here.

You've never done that. Because I checked this name and I'm like, do you really think I'm going to dox myself on Twitter? Be so you can go run to headquarters or something and see if my name's on some role there.

Come on. Let's use a little common sense here. Just just a little bit.

Just a tiny bit. But yeah, I mean, you get all sorts of all sorts of shit and it's all centered around this stigmatism that's still around being a Satanist. And I always kind of go back to, you know, if we could do the same thing, if we could just, where are, you know, where are Baphomet to work?

Where, you know, and some people can, I'll tell you.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
That should be, that should be a holiday. Where are your Baphomet to work day?

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I like that. And when I was younger, when I was in my mid 20s, I did because I was at a different level in my career. I didn't give a fuck.

I was like, no, I'm wearing, and I was totally an out Satanist, even at work. I was like, I'm wearing this. If anybody ever said anything to me, I was like, you have a cross on, you can't say shit because that's religious discrimination.

And again, it sort of depends on what level you're at in your career, where you're at and all of that sort of stuff is what makes a difference on how safe you are and how.

[Lilin Lavin]
So has there ever been a time where you've second guessed yourself for your decision or found it frustrating or limiting?

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Like I said, the very first time that the Mothers of Liberty came after me in front of the school board, they handed pictures to the school board that were off my public profile for Facebook, my company's business page. But then they also handed them pictures from the event that were on a closed PTO group. And those pictures had other people's kids in them.

And they were only handing them to the school board. So, you know, that's one thing. But I did have this moment where I was like, am I putting other people in danger?

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, that's a hard one. We've definitely debated, even with pseudonyms, we still debate it because we're very public politically, not telling people who to vote for, but just being active in the community for different causes. Like recently, school board issues where they're trying to bring chaplains into schools, which I'm very against.

But just going there and doing that. And I think you've said that you also have a history of activism where when you go and do things like that, to speak at a board meeting or something, you do have to share sometimes an address, sometimes a phone number, different pieces of information. So even if you have utilized a pseudonym, you still have to kind of dox aspects of yourself and trust that those people aren't going to share it.

So, you know, there's levels of secrecy that you carry that still you have to decide how far you want to carry that.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, how much is the risk worth it? Which, like you said, you just did that school board thing. You were able to use your pseudonym for your name, but to the school board, you had to provide your actual address and phone number, which now you're trusting a school board full of Christian nationalists.

Well, mostly Christian nationalists to not, you know, sort of under the table, give that information to somebody else.

[Lilin Lavin]
And to be fair, though, I mean, and I'm not telling anybody to ever do any of these things if you don't feel like doing it. But I've also kind of tried to put things out against different, like I think the Texas GOP attacked me publicly and put my name and stuff, my pseudonym and my image all over their stuff. And they have a decent fan base.

So they started coming after me. So I went to the Freedom From Religion Foundation and another organization. You have to give them your actual details and the incident.

So they all already have my information. So I wasn't so much worried about that. But I always do, in the back of my mind, worry if I'm putting my kids at risk.

And we've had to have conversations about if you see strange people, if you see strange vehicles, you know, the crazy things that I don't think people standing on other religious principle have ever had to really deal with in the United States to that degree. Now, maybe if you're representing, like, the Jewish faith in current environment, I could see that where if you're representing different beliefs that are less favorable in the eye of the majority, I think you definitely still have to deal with that to a degree. But there's a good chunk of people that say some really off the wall crap that don't even have to worry about repercussions.

Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Yeah, and like I said, well, I don't use a pseudonym and this is my legal name. I also, you know, I don't share the same last name as my kids.

[Lilin Lavin]
Right.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
So I have like that little bit of protection of, you know, if my name was to appear in the news, you know, other parents would be like, don't you go to school with that person's kid?

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And so like, that's the little bit of protection I have. But I guess, so I had the experience of, I taught a cookie decorating class at headquarters in Salem.

[Lilin Lavin]
Nice.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And it was great. And I stayed there. I got to stay at, you know, the Salem Art Gallery for a couple days.

And a week later, I came home and we got the news article that somebody had been planning on bombing it.

[Lilin Lavin]
Oof, yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And I had, you know, this moment where I was like, is this really what I want to dedicate the rest of my life? Do I constantly want to know that like, because I'm a baker, right? I'm very into activism.

And I always have been. But like, at the end of the day, I do more activism through my company than I do personally. You know, I always say, you know, this is my medium to work in.

And if I can help people using my medium to work in and I can bring, you know, activism to light using cookies and cakes and stuff, then that's my calling. But at the end of the day, you know, do I want to continue down this path of, okay, well, you know, that lady right there, that's the satanic baker. Because that's what people refer to me as here.

And do I want to continue doing that and know the risks that come along with that? Or do I want to, you know, take a quick left-hand turn, no pun intended, and stop doing that, right? And it comes down to, you know, it's been three years now that I've worn my beliefs, literally on my sleeve.

And my kids are proud of who I am. And my family that stuck around, especially my significant other, is really proud of who I am and what I've accomplished. And I'm really proud of who I am and what I have become, despite growing up very religious, despite growing up with a really conservative family.

And, you know, knowing that if I continued the path of my family, I would never accept the person I am today.

[Lilin Lavin]
Well, you should be proud. I mean, I'm proud of you. I think it's amazing to be out there.

Yeah, I mean, to do what you do and to back it up with, there's so much on the line. I mean, this is your business. This is something that you make a living doing.

You're a parent, you know, these are all huge things. And yet you have the strength and confidence to just go out there and do what you believe is right. And I think, you know, that's heavily commendable.

And I very much appreciate you. Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
And we've talked about our history here a bit a few times on different podcasts. And when we first got married and we first had little kids, we backed away from being active, sort of public Satanists, just because we didn't really know. And again, this is before TST was around to sort of smooth out the edges of what Satanism really is to the general public.

The satanic panic had just sort of died down a little bit. So it was a scary time when you have kids and you have to bring the thought of, do I expose my children to this possible danger? Not from me, but from the crazies out there.

[Lilin Lavin]
Well, and I had gone through group homes and foster homes. So of course, in the back of my mind is that, will this be something that people will look at and go, well, Satanists aren't safe for children, you know, because of all the associated stigma that comes along with the term Satanism. So we were really cautious and kind of nervous about it as younger people, you know, I think it was early twenties at the time.

So we actually, poor Tommy was so supportive. I wanted to try and find a safe community and I actually wanted to experience, so I went fundagelical for a little while, like, you know, first assembly level crap. And just to try and see if that was different, if it was this loving, nurturing community and not to say there weren't great people, there were, but it was just very, it didn't fit for me.

It required me to be two very different people and it's just not who I was. A lot of people are happy like that and good for them. But, you know, it was something I attempted because I felt like my kids needed normalcy and it turned out I was actually giving them a lot less realistic support and understanding.

And even as an example, I was kind of letting them down in a way because I didn't feel comfortable being me. And they could see that. It was very disingenuous.

So it was good to be able to kind of come out of that and not saying pseudonyms make you disingenuous, but saying, you know, if you're not living up to who you are because you're trying to hide it for whatever reason, even with the best of intentions, if you're not being true to yourself, you know, it shows. Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
I actually had a pretty similar experience to that. I will say before I tell the story that I am very lucky that I was in the circumstance that I was in, because it's not often that, you know, very Christian people walk into the life of a Satanist and change it, right? But when I went to college, I came from a very sheltered life.

My family was very conservative. My dad was very into politics growing up. He served, you know, he was the councilman of our town and very Republican.

And, you know, we went to church every week, die hard, go to church. And I went to a Catholic private college. And the moment that I stepped foot into that college, I was like, yeah, no, I don't want any of this.

So I immediately got involved in COS. And then the year that I graduated college, this is going to age me. You're going to realize how young I am and it's going to be disturbing.

The year that I graduated college, it was 2013. And that was like really when TST started making waves and immediately jumped ship to TST because, you know, COS is great when there's no other option.

[Tommy Lavin]
Right, right. Exactly. COS fit the bill for me because there was not another option.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Exactly. Because there's nothing else. But I didn't necessarily agree with any of the writings of Anton LaVey.

And I won't lie. I was a 21 year old kid who, you know, rode motorcycles and was a tattoo artist on the weekends. And, you know, I will give a part of it was because I wanted to be edgy.

[Lilin Lavin]
Fair.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
You know, I was the only goth kid at this Catholic college. And it was so notable that the college asked me to not come out of my dorm when they're doing tours. Like that's so I was very notably the person who stood out.

And then when I left college, I ended up thinking, you know, maybe I do want to go back to being religious. I grew up that way. And all of a sudden, it was me and my boyfriend at the time.

And we didn't have a great relationship. And I found myself pregnant very quickly after I graduated college. And he was very religious.

So we found a church near us that we started going to. And I, I do this thing where I dive in with both feet. I never do anything half assed.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
I'm going all the way or I'm dying.

[Lilin Lavin]
Right.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
So I immediately became super, super involved in the church. It was the only thing I had going on because I was pregnant. I didn't really have a job yet because we had just moved to like the Harrisburg area.

And so I got really, really involved, like so involved that I talked about going to seminary. And one day I was sitting there with the pastor. And he looked at me and he said, you don't believe in any of this, do you?

And I said, no, like, if you want me to be honest with you, I don't believe in any of this. And he's like, I appreciate everything you do for the church. And I'm absolutely not going to tell you to leave.

You know, you're always, always welcome here. But don't think you have to come here because you're not going to find something that you're not looking for.

[Tommy Lavin]
That's, I can admire that. That's when I talk about there are real Christians. That's what I mean.

You know, there are.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
He was a great.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. And I get along great with real, true, honest Christians. I have no problem with them.

When they start to pass laws and push the religion on me, then I have problems with them.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Right. I feel similarly. And then I kind of like I was always up to date on TST news, but I wasn't like active in any congregation or anything.

And it wasn't until, you know, I started my company and I started donating cookies and people were like getting mad at me and I couldn't figure out why. And it was because at that time, it wasn't necessarily because I was satanic. It was because I was very leftist.

Like people could very, very clearly see, you know, I'm sending offensive cookies to your senators and you know who's buying those cookies. There's no secret. I was buying those cookies.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. I'm guessing you were talking like the 2016 ish period here.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Yeah. Just about. And that was when people started really coming after me.

And it, you know, the local congregation, I had never met any of them. I didn't know that there were satanists local to me. And all of a sudden I was like flooded with messages of, hey, we're here for you.

Nice. If you need us, let us know. And immediately I was like, I didn't even know you people were here.

And it's because they all use pseudonyms.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And that's great because it doubles the amount of friends you have.

[Lilin Lavin]
True.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Because you go to gatherings and people are like, hey, I was on your Facebook the other day. I really liked that thing you got. And I'm like, I don't know who you are.

And he's like, well, no, no, I'm Gary. And I'm like, yeah, I don't have any friends named Gary. And he's like, oh, right.

You're friends with my pseudonym name. And I'm like, okay.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. Yeah. I run in and it's funny because there's so many pseudonyms and Satanism that I'm just most of the time, I don't even try and pronounce half of them.

I'm like, just tell me your name or say what your name is, because I know I'm going to fuck it up.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And then there's some that you just can't say with a straight face, right?

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
There's like, I'm not going to call you that in public. That's not a thing. You could come up with any other name, but I'm definitely not going to call you that.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And it's so funny because I'm such great friends with some of the ministers here. There's four of us and we're really great friends outside of Satanism. And I didn't know that I've been referring to one of them as a pseudonym for two years.

I didn't know it wasn't a real name.

[Lilin Lavin]
Oh, nice. Wow.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
I've been to that person's house and baked for her kids. I've babysat her kids. I didn't know that wasn't a real name.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. That's one of the other things that can be really... We know a lot of people and we know them on both sides of the name.

And so you're like, oh crap, where am I? What are we doing? Okay.

Yeah. This is who you are. I forgot.

So it's just like you're constantly kind of doing that thing that Dan... Sometimes I'll literally not call them by their name, their given name, because I don't want to get into a habit. Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
I remember we've had people over before just to kind of hang out. And as we got to know them and we'd ask them, what name do you want us to introduce you to our kids by? Do you want your real name or do you want us to call you by your pseudonym?

And normally in an environment like this, they'll just call me by my name, because they've become comfortable enough in that. But then you always have to remember, if I call somebody by their name, so many times it could become habitual. And so I have to really check myself out in public that I don't slip and say their real name instead of their pseudonym.

[Lilin Lavin]
So I'm going to hand it to the younger generation on this, because my kids can do it so flawlessly. And I've learned that it's because in the younger generations, a lot of people do have very different names, especially in our kids friend group. They have a lot of people that are trans or in different parts of their life, they're experiencing different things.

And so they just kind of go between names so well. And it's kind of, I'm trying to learn how to do it and I don't do so well. But they've definitely helped give me some different tips on how they do it, because they do.

And it's kind of cool.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Yeah. I mean, I looked out, so I'm a non-binary individual, but I looked out because, you know, my full name is Jessica, but Jessie is a really nice androgynous.

[Lilin Lavin]
It's a good name.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Middle ground, which is really, really convenient for me. But I actually had this conversation with my nine-year-old pretty recently. So she comes with me to a lot of my events.

She really loves being involved in my bakery. And I love spending that time with her. And we recently decided to order hockey jerseys that had, we're big hockey people, my house, we're big hockey people.

[Lilin Lavin]
That's awesome.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And we thought it would be a lot of fun to have hockey jerseys made our bathy logo on it.

[Lilin Lavin]
Nice.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And so I had said to her, hey, do you want one of these jerseys? Do you want to pick out the colors and everything? And, you know, what number do you want your jersey to set?

And things like that. And I was setting it up. And they're like showing you in real time on the computer, the sample of it.

And so the back of mine says Jessie. And so I started typing her name into it. And she said, hey, mom, could you put punk in there instead?

Because that's what I call her. That's my nickname for her. And I was like, what?

And she's like, instead of putting my name on it, can you put punk? I would rather people call me that when I'm at shows.

[Lilin Lavin]
That's funny.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Instead of calling me my name. And that's in my mind, I was like, great. Now she even has a super name.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. I mean, it's funny because I guess people have layers, you know, and I think that is what I'm saying. A lot of the younger folks, they have these different layers to them.

And as they build comfort, you know, they are more or less who they want to be. Yeah, as they discover themselves. Yeah.

And sometimes it's that they start with their given name. And then as they feel comfortable with someone, then they'll give their more precious, like their name, who they see themselves as. So I've seen it that way.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Which is beautiful. I envy those kids. Like younger me envies those children.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, it's a beautiful thing to see where you start out with the name that they were given. And then they're like, actually, could you call me this? And this is who I am.

And I'm like, oh, my gosh, that's so cool. Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Yeah. That's beautiful. I wish that that existed.

It wouldn't have anyway, because of my family. But, you know, as somebody who didn't even dare to think about, you know, my queerness until I was a whole ass adult out of my house, it's a really great thing to see in today's. They're doing that.

And that's another thing that really that really brought me to a point where I felt like I was stronger keeping my real name as what I went by is that my daughter is she's so bright. And she is one of those people who is forever questioning, you know, why is this like this? And so she has the very interesting opportunity to her father and I are not together.

And we have we share custody. We have 50 50 custody where her father is very religious still. So she goes from, you know, one week she goes to church and the next week she comes here to the house of the house of the Satan Baker.

And I've always stood by the rule that I believe personally that organized religion is the most dangerous thing that you can give to a child. Yep. I think that you should be in a position until you are a whole adult that you get to learn about things.

But nothing is forced upon you. And I've always stood by that with my daughter. When she was three years old, she watched an episode of Puppy Dog Pals and they had Hanukkah.

[Lilin Lavin]
Oh, cool.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And immediately her question was, why don't we have Hanukkah? And I said, you know, it's because we we've never celebrated that. That's not our religion.

And she immediately said, well, can I learn more about Hanukkah? And I said, well, I can't teach you about Hanukkah, but I sure as heck have a phone book and I can find someone who can.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yep. Thank you.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And her and I went and we sat down with a rabbi who sat and explained Hanukkah to her and explained a very basic form of Judaism to her. And I've always told her if there's a question you have about any religion, if I can't answer it factually, like if I don't know 100 percent that I can answer it, I will find somebody who can. I have created a really nice bond.

We have a group here that always does like all the events that does the Ask a Muslim table. And I've created a really nice bond with them because I've had to text them before and be like, hey, my daughter has a question. Can I FaceTime you?

Yeah, because my daughter's best friend is Muslim. And sometimes she's not comfortable asking her best friend, hey, why do you do this?

[Tommy Lavin]
Right.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And so I'm like, don't worry, I have someone's number. We'll find out. It'll be great.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. And we raised our kids the same way, too. We, you know, we let them explore.

Our children have gone to Christian church because they were interested. We found out one of them was only going so she could get candy and all the food that they gave in the, you know, the evening kids group, which was still fine. You know, we thought that was kind of funny.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
Got to game the system, right? Yeah. They've been to Buddhist temples.

They've been to Hindu temples, you know, talk to the monks. It's the same sort of thing. If they're interested, if I can answer it, I'll answer it.

If I can't, I'll say this is what, you know, this is kind of what I know about it. But let's find somebody who can give you, you know, the facts or, you know, around the religion. And they've all grown up to well, they're not all grown up yet, but mostly, you know, our youngest is a teenager, you know, but they've matured to become their own person.

One of them identifies kind of as a Satanist. One of them identifies as just kind of agnostic, atheist, you know, atheist, agnostic. She doesn't really care.

And then the others are just still kind of exploring. I would say our youngest is also more interested in Satanism. But, you know, it's her time to explore.

It's her time to learn. And she goes to the pagan markets with us. And she walks around and she asks questions and looks around.

And it's, you know, that's as parents, that is what I believe our role is to be is to help guide them, but support them in whatever decision that it is that they make and still love them.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. Which it sounds like you're already way, way ahead of the game on that. Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Well, and like I said, we're currently in our school board, we're currently fighting with a Christian law group. Our school board wants to bring in this Christian law group that has already taken over multiple school boards in our area. And immediately, you know, I found out today that we're going to have a protest on Monday.

And my daughter came to school and I said, Hey, Lily, you know, do you want to have, do you want to go with me to this protest? You know, it's at the school board building. It's in a safe enough location that I feel comfortable bringing her to it.

[Tommy Lavin]
Right, right.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And, and I said, do you want to go to this protest? And I very briefly, you know, explained what, what they were doing, like what this group stood for. And immediately, she said, can I make a poster?

[Lilin Lavin]
Wow, that's so cool.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And I said, of course, you can make a poster. Why? Why do you feel like you want to make a poster?

Like you're so on board, you didn't ask any question. And she said, because my best friend is Muslim, and I don't want Christians running a school where she doesn't feel safe.

[Lilin Lavin]
That's, that's it. I mean, it's that simple.

[Tommy Lavin]
And wow, it's amazing how the kids can get this. And the adults can't.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Adults can't.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, yeah. It's like we found it the most, for me, the most troubling thing I've ever experienced was going to a school area to protest corporal punishment, and having the community angry that we didn't think it was appropriate to Beat your children. Yeah, abuse on on kids.

And I just couldn't.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
That's such a weird thing.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, I can't understand it.

[Tommy Lavin]
I can't tell you how many times we got the whole spare the rod, spoil the child sort of feel along with the middle finger to go with it, you know.

[Lilin Lavin]
But you know, be that as it may, it's just that level of this brainwashing or whatever that people feel like this is necessary. And I think, you know, I was talking about this with you the other day, Tommy, it feels to me like people when they're abused, they're often told, you know, it diminished their abuse on a routine basis. And then, you know, they do it to other people, because they were always told, it's not that big of a deal, you're fine.

The more you complain about it just shows how weak you are. And they kind of pass that same thing on to other people. So I think it's something that they kind of pick up.

But I think parents like you, and other parents that are out there trying to say, you know, be who you are, question things. Why do you want to get on board with this? What is it that interests you?

I think you can't do any better service to your kids than doing that. Yeah, exactly.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Well, and I'm lucky to be in the generation of humans who are really trying to break the generational curses, right? Yep. Like, you know, if I had a dime for every time my father told me, well, you survived and I spanked you.

Well, yeah. But I also like, well, you want to talk about the alphabetical disorder list I have mentally because of that stuff.

[Tommy Lavin]
Right. Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
But that doesn't occur to them. And that's, you know, that's part of my thing. My daughter will always know that she can be exactly who she wants to be and go under any name.

And I think a lot of that is because I choose to be who I am under mine.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. It does leave a lot of, it gives a lot of strength and, you know, our kids can see what we do.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. And we talk about why do we use pseudonyms? Why do some people not use pseudonyms?

So I think this was a really good way to kind of explain both sides of it and a lot of things in between. And I really appreciate not only what you do in your community, what you offer people with your, you know, taking care of them with sweets and sugar and all the good things that everybody wants, you know, and actual compassion and kindness to kind of go with it. But just being bold and being who you are.

Yeah, absolutely.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
I deeply appreciate that. Thank you so much. You have no idea what that means to me, honestly, because it's, you know, growing up the way that I did and then deciding to be the person I am, you know, that's like the scariest thing that you could possibly do in your lifetime.

It's like, no, the person who I am goes defies every single thing I was ever taught.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
My family, my family was homophobic. My family was super religious. And it was very difficult for me to grow up and be like, oh, hey, I am a queer non religious.

And you're a queer voice. And be okay with that. Yeah.

And it's challenging because I will, like, I'm married to a man. So there's a lot of erasure kind of things that have to be dealt with. But, you know, that's also super important for me to show my daughter.

Like, that compassion is so important right now. Right now, especially, it's so important that our kids see that. Yes.

I mean, and that's with everything that's gone on, you know, all the anti trans and the terrible tragedy of next and everything recently. You know, I had to sit down and have that conversation with my daughter.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And, you know, I don't want to say dumbing it down, because that's not the right term, but simplifying it to a point where my nine year old can digest it. And saying, but you know what? The school knows me.

I'm the pain in the school's ass. You know, and that's important. I'm the loud voice.

I know if something happens to my kids, the school will fear that I will be in a.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. Yeah. Our school is much the same way too.

[Lilin Lavin]
But it's not, you know, the beauty is other kids see that. Other kids will hear that as your daughter gets older, you know, they're nine now. Other kids, we've been there through that.

I mean, I'm also in the queer community. I'm also married in a heteronormative relationship. So there is some of that same sort.

I understand where you're going with that. But, you know, we would work with the GSA. We would work with PFLAG.

We would do things to be more involved. So for other kids in the community, they're going to hear that from your daughter. They're going to hear that from you.

And you're giving them a path and you're lighting the way for them. Yeah, just leading by example.

[Tommy Lavin]
I mean, we can steal that term, right? Absolutely. I don't think it's, yeah, it's just a term.

Well, I think we can.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
And if nothing else, like I know that my kid, if my daughter has friends who need, you know, a parent at any point in time, like if they need a parent for a minute.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Right. I know that my daughter knows that she can bring people here if they need a mom for a minute.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yep.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, we had much the same situation here, too.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, I'm glad when we don't have to fill that role, because it means that people are doing okay. But I'm also equally glad when we can fill that role, because the one thing you're going to remember when you look back on life is those people that stood up for you in the worst moments.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yep. Well, with that, I think we can wrap on the subject. Again, you know, using a pseudonym or not is up to each individual person.

And how much they use that pseudonym, you know, whether they're kind of like me, where I use it online, but in real life, I am who I am. And fuck you if you don't like me. Or if you're just not in a position to do any of that.

And it doesn't make you any stronger or weaker either way.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
You know, because everybody's That's the beautiful thing.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yep.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
I'm sorry. Beautiful thing about Satanism.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, that is.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Is that it's your personal journey. Nobody you're you have to answer to absolutely nobody.

[Tommy Lavin]
Exactly. Who you want to be. Exactly.

Exactly that. And so it's who you want to be individualistic. And so if you're using a pseudonym, and that's what you're comfortable with, don't let anybody talk you out of that.

Don't let anybody talk you into doxing yourself if you're not ready. And anybody that is out there doxing Satanists, fuck you. That is wrong.

[Lilin Lavin]
And if you're like Jesse out there as a queer veteran, proud Satanist, that's cool to like fly their flag and be behind their business 100% the way they are awesome for them too. Yeah, and thank you. Please check out Sugar Anarchy.

Give Jesse some love. And Jesse, thank you.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
I ship all over the country.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, thank you so much for being here. And for sharing not only this conversation, but so much of your story and who you are. Yeah.

Hail Satan.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it. Hail Satan.

[Lilin Lavin]
Hail Satan.

[Jessy Aumiou'xx]
Yeah.