Ep.38: Satanic Advocacy and Community Engagement - A Week in Review

# Satanists Nextdoor
# Ep.38: Satanic Advocacy and Community Engagement - A Week in Review

[Lilin Lavin]
Welcome dear listeners to Satanist Next Door. We're your hosts, Lilin Lavin and Tommy Lavin. Whether you're an open-minded curious onlooker or a fellow Satanist seeking camaraderie, our goal is to share our personal experiences and delve into the intricate tapestry of Satanism in our daily lives, occasionally inviting other guests to share their unique perspectives, leaving no pentagram unturned.

We'll explore how our beliefs shape our views on society, dive into struggles and triumphs we've encountered, and reveal the humanity that unites us all. So grab your favorite chalice and join us on this captivating journey. Satanist Next Door is ready to peel back the curtain and offer you a glimpse into our world, one captivating episode at a time.

[Tommy Lavin]
Hello and welcome to another episode of Satanist Next Door. So this week we've been actually pretty busy out and about, you know, doing Satan stuff. And so we thought we would, you know, kind of recap some of the things that we did this week.

You know, and I think some of these dovetail into the last conversation that we had where Lucian was on and, you know, the whole group was on there because we were talking about doing things and what we can do just as individual members or people, or even if you're not a member and you're just like, hey, this shit's kind of fucked up that, you know, they're trying to push through. So yeah, I say the first thing we should probably talk about because you went and spoke at a school board for, you know, they were having a board meeting for adding chaplains into the district.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, that was really interesting. And I will say if you've never had the chance to go to a school board meeting in your area, I mean, even just to sit in and see how they function, it's worth going, especially if they have open commentary, because you don't know what you're going to hear. I certainly didn't.

And the things that people had taken the time to research on board members and share with the community who are literally paying their salaries were really a bit eye-opening to look at. And voting them in, too. And voting them in, yeah.

So it was really interesting to learn some of that stuff. I mean, and see what the school boards are doing in your area, because they do have to do a little bit of accountability and talk about what's happening and what they're doing individually. So I did like just being part of that.

And, you know, anytime you get to see how these things work, it gives you a better understanding.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. I mean, it was like the first or second lady that went out to speak. I mean, she just, like, dumped all the shit on each one of the members.

I mean, one of them turned out that he was a Gen Sixer, you know. It was like, wow.

[Lilin Lavin]
Another one apparently was selling, like, faulty machinery. There was so much stuff. So, you know, I had the normal anxiety, I think anyone does, when you know you're going to be speaking in front of a decent-sized group of people on something that really does matter, and what you say really matters.

So on that, I would say everyone obviously can't just jump into doing this kind of thing. Because you have to be public. Right.

And especially since if you're out there speaking as a Satanist, everyone obviously can't just go out and speak on behalf of a congregation and should not speak on behalf of TST. Even I can't officially speak for TST itself. Only my position in it and what I was trying to express in this moment called for me to be there as a congregation minister because it was about the chaplaincy program. So I was really nervous.

I didn't want to say anything wrong or say the wrong things that could be misinterpreted. So I chose my words very carefully, and I didn't want to disparage other people's beliefs because, you know, people are entitled to their own beliefs. They're just really not necessarily entitled to share them when there's a separation that exists between church and state.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. I think you did an awesome job. I mean, and there is a recording of it.

We put it up on TikTok and then shared it across Facebook and Twitter and all of that sort of stuff. So if you haven't watched it yet, I'd say, you know, go take a peek. I think you did really well, and you nailed all.

You did it in a respectful manner, in a manner, and you can actually see the elderly lady behind you really confused at times when you were speaking, especially when you were speaking about the responsibility of counselors and if they're going to do this, they need to do this the right way and be inclusive and all that, you know, she was like, and then the hail Satan, of course, her jaw kind of dropped.

[Lilin Lavin]
Anytime you shout that out in a very non-Satanic environment, people tend to be very differing reactions. Yeah. Almost tend to be shock or aggression, but I don't think what was nice was, and it really speaks more to, I think, TST as a whole, people were excited to see us there.

Yes. Other people from the congregation came and sat with me and you while we were doing this, and it was nice that people came up and sat with me and spoke to me and thanked me for being there. Prior to the event, just so everyone's clear, other parents had reached out to our congregation wanting someone to come and speak because it did have to do with religion in school, which I do not think should be happening.

I don't think religion belongs in school. I have no problem with education that talks about theology and differing religions. I think that that's healthy as long as you're not trying to push one over the other.

If you're just honestly having an open conversation about just theology itself and how people experience it and what it means to other people and leaving it open to people's interpretation to decide what they want to explore, that's fantastic, especially if you can bring in different representatives of those beliefs because then you get a much better, richer context and you can share a lot more about it. So even if no one wants to do it, they truly understand the religion.

But what I don't want and what I don't think most people really want is one interpretation of religious belief because, to be clear, the chaplaincy program is not all Christianity and it's not going to reflect all Christians. It's a very narrow kind of thing that really pushes an indoctrination. Into Christian rationalism.

Even if they're using flowery, yeah, it's flowery language and they used what I felt was really disingenuous suicide prevention as one of the big reasons why they should be in a school. And to be quite honest with you, while I do think religion plays an important part for people that share faith to help with suicidal ideation and to help them with issues that they're dealing with, what I don't feel is that people who are there with a very obvious agenda are going to be there for LGBTQIA kids or kids that are Muslim or kids that are Hindu or kids that are Buddhist. I feel worried that in these environments, while some may be open and helpful to those kids, that a lot of them will be shamed, additionally harmed, feel further unheard.

Isolated. And feel more isolated because I'm worried that this particular group of people will then say, well, it's because of your lack of this. Or if you were part of these things, pointing them to very specific religious outlets, then these kids would be further harmed and may actually be an impetus of self-harming behavior.

So that's what I don't want.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. And it was amazing because you could tell that there was a group there and they brought in people from other places. I mean, these were people, this was a coordinated effort because this school board had already voted on chaplains and denied it.

And then I guess they got lobbied by, you know, this group that.

[Lilin Lavin]
And the representative of the chaplaincy program wasn't attendant and did speak on it. He actually was sitting right in front of us.

[Tommy Lavin]
But yeah, so they had already voted. So there was a lot of upset parents because they were like, we already covered this. You all are already voted.

We voted. No, we didn't want this. Why are we back here again?

And it was really, really obvious they were back there because they got lobbied by this group of Christian nationalists that want to bring in these chaplains. And so they brought in all of these, quote unquote, chaplains to speak. And they kept saying, we're not here to prophesize.

Now, understand, in order to get into the boardroom, you had to walk through the hall where they were having a Christian concert. It was an open lobby at the school board building. Yes.

But they were having a Christian concert with flags and all of that sort of stuff. You know, things that you would expect to see at an evangelical church if you were going to a service. And then when they were speaking, they would say, we're not here to prophesize to students.

And then they would go into stories about Jesus Christ and how Jesus Christ saved them and all of this. And it's like, so you're not here to prophesize, but you're prophesizing while you're making your case. It was really, really interesting to see, one, how powerful this group is in Texas, you know, that they were able to organize and bring a board back to do a second vote on something that was already settled in everybody's minds.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. I think we've spoken about this before. And even if you're not a parent and you're interested in your overall community, I suggest being aware of what's being done with school boards, because your tax money does, in fact, go to these school boards.

So when they place different members on these boards, the thing to be aware of is what are they there for? What are they representing? How are they affecting your kids' future or the future of your community?

Because your kids are going to, even if you don't have kids, the kids in your community are going to grow and they're going to influence business and the greater community at large. So it's going to affect you if you plan to live in this community for any length of time. So take an interest, because this is the future you're going to be interacting with.

But they definitely aren't people. When I say they, people don't seem to be taking time to pay attention. We've voted on these in-between sessions quite a few times.

I don't know that I've missed voting for most of my life from turning 18. But I began to get more involved in the off... The off-season, the middle, midterms, and even the mid-midterms, you know.

So we started being much more active in understanding who are the people that are putting up for votes? What are these boards composed of? What interest do these individuals represent?

What's their agenda? Right. And unfortunately, over the last so many years, we've noticed a very strong increase in people that have religious backing, very specific nationalist-tied religious backing.

Because, you know, have religious involvement isn't unusual and not necessarily a bad thing. But when they're very specifically nationalist-type things, it's very concerning. Because these are the areas where they have influence to then affect other parts of your community.

So these individuals were very largely backed by that particular group. And so they're much more influenced by those type of legislative efforts and pushes. There were a few people obviously not associated with it and were, unfortunately, some of the lone voices of challenge.

Very well done. Very professional. Intellectually placed questions.

I mean, things that really brought into question, what are we doing? Here are my concerns. Are you going to be able to address them?

What about these things? So the considerations were there. And parents, amazing job by the CyFair parents.

They showed up understanding what this legislation meant, how it was being funded, the way it would affect things. So, you know, people are getting more involved. Please do that.

If you're a member of a community, educate yourself on the things that are happening. Write up something that makes sense. It could be short.

It doesn't have to be long. It could be something very small and impactful nonetheless, even if it's small. But speak about what your concerns are as a person, what your concerns are for your community, and how you're feeling that this will affect the educational environment that students will be in, especially for things like this.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, and just to be clear, because I saw some posts, you know, schools are supposed to be secular. We completely agree with that. Schools are supposed to be secular.

But if the school board votes or knows they're taking a vote to bring in chaplains, they're looking to get rid of that secular part that's supposed to be in public school. So sometimes when TST shows up and we're making our argument that if you put a program in, you have to be inclusive because that's the law. I mean, that comes down to constitutional rights.

You can't have one religion in a public school. Now, if you want to do that in private, that's fine. But our stance is, well, if you're going to open these up, then you have to open them up to everybody, and that includes us.

And by taking that stance, we've been able to stop some of these schools because they realize they say, oh, shit. Yes, if we open this up, we're either going to have to let them in or we're going to have to deal with a whole bunch of lawsuits and things like that, and we don't want that. So by staying quiet, you don't actually do anything.

You're not battling anything. Yes, you can stay quiet and say, well, schools are supposed to be secular. OK, but what did you do to stop it?

Nothing. OK, well, then you gave them permission. Because you stayed quiet.

You didn't do anything. You sat on your ass, which fine. If you're OK with that, you're OK with that.

But that's what being quiet does. Being quiet is capitulation. You're basically saying, well, we don't think that school should be secular, so I'm just not going to go.

I'm not going to give this statement. I'm not going to speak on behalf of my religion because my religion doesn't believe people should be in, you know, religion should be in school. OK, well, at least go and say that.

Yeah, you know, at least go and say schools are supposed to be secular. I mean, you only get a minute or two to speak. So it's not like you have to put together a whole big, long thing.

You can just literally go up there and say, I'm against this. Schools are supposed to be secular.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, and the shorter, honestly, the better. I went with a bit longer and I did time it and I did practice it. And I did really try to make it impactful because I was there to say, right, as a minister, which I am, as a legally recognized religion, which we are, I want you to understand that we also have a right to come in and do this.

And if you're going to insist on it, fine. I respect that. That's your right to do.

And if other people choose to vote it in, that's their choice. But we need to be included. And, you know, if you're going to do that, then I really would prefer you consider the impact of the psychological well-being of kids, that you're taking away money for teachers that need it, for counselors that need it.

And I believe that the bill actually recognizes they're taking away from security funding. Yes. So the chaplains would be, in part, part of the security funding money that goes to the school resource officers and people that are there to protect your kids, to help put in security barriers, the things that we really wish didn't have to be in school either.

[Tommy Lavin]
Right. Things like to protect against things like school shootings, which we see a lot of, unfortunately, these days. I'd much rather have my money going there than to some chaplain that's going to say, well, Jimmy, I understand that you're having a hard time, but maybe if you embrace the Lord, then that wouldn't be so hard.

We don't need that in school. That's what church is for. Right.

[Lilin Lavin]
A lot of the people that were there as proponents for the chaplaincy program brought up statistics that didn't have a lot of supporting data. And I definitely recommend people, if they're seeing this in their area, look it up, do some research and challenge their data points. Because in this instance, they didn't really have.

I wasn't there to do that, though. But in this instance, they didn't have proper vetted supportive data. And that's another way you can definitely challenge it.

If you're not comfortable saying something that you feel is passionate or eloquent, or if you're just more of a very sound reasoned person, go up there with the numbers. Go up there with the data. Talk about the way that counselors that are trained and often have master's degrees in child psychology development and just different aspects of psychological health.

These people are there to provide a serious service that is not geared toward any particular belief system. And they have sound advice. They have different tools.

They have tactics that they can share with kids to help them in a situation. And they are mandatory.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I was about to just jump in with that, that they're mandatory reporters. Whereas chaplains are not mandatory reporters. They'll tell you something like, oh, well, chaplains will report, but they're not mandatory reporters.

So if they don't report something, they don't get in any trouble. Nothing happens to them. You know, maybe their church says, well, Bob, you probably should have said something about that, you know.

[Lilin Lavin]
But that's a big issue, because we know, unfortunately, that when you have a body of students that percentage wise, there's going to be students there that are being abused, whether it's physically or sexually in the home or in other aspects of their lives. And they're going to want someone to speak to at some point. Again, it's a percentage game.

So that diminishes. Because school, unfortunately, a lot of kids don't feel safe to do that.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, and that's just it. They have to feel safe with the person. And are there shitty counselors?

Oh, for sure. We've experienced that with our own kids. I've experienced this as a person.

Yeah, there are shitty counselors. But that doesn't mean we replace them with chaplains. You know, and we heard everything from, well, how about y'all just try it for a year?

You know, and everybody knows once you get something in, it is so hard to get it out. You know, even as businesses, once you put incentives or benefits in, it's hard to take them away because it gives a negative look. So once they're in, they're in.

[Lilin Lavin]
But it did say a chaplain employed under this subsection is not required to be certified by the State Board for Educator Certification. A counselor is required to teach. So far as I know, the qualifications necessary, at least in the state of Texas, they're required to be involved.

They're required to be certified. That's a really big deal. And the program that they're using for these chaplains at this time, from what I know, because I haven't taken it and I haven't been allowed to look through the program, is it is religiously based.

And it's not what I think the standard should be for this type of a job role. They did keep insisting that they weren't going to replace counselors with the chaplains, but it is very clearly written in the language of the bill that, you know, the goal was really to do that. And I do believe if they do let the chaplains in, that moving forward, the board would find reason to then diminish the role of counselors, or if not, eliminate the role of counselors and replace them with this program, which then goes back.

Believe it or not, to the church and the people back in these things. So your tax dollars are now yet again being funneled to religious and obviously political things.

[Tommy Lavin]
I mean, we all know we've seen it over time. Christian nationalists, they play the long game. They understand, OK, we can't just go in and have the counselors fired on day one.

So if we get in there over time, what we'll be able to do is, you know, when when people come up for review or, you know, the finances come up for review or whatnot, they'll probably chop a counselor or two because they don't need them because chaplains are doing such a good job. And so then they just, you know, let those counselors go. They still have a couple.

And then over time, they reduce that and reduce that and reduce that. And then all of a sudden, five, ten years from now, you have chaplains. That's all you have in public schools.

[Lilin Lavin]
Some of the folks brought up that when a tragedy happens, some of the first people on the scene are ministers or chaplains. Now, I will say if a school invites someone in after something like that to be there for people from the community, that makes sense to me. You're being invited into the school, not as part of the school, to then help be there, whether it's just as a presence or as a person to speak with for people and families in that time of tragedy.

I think that's very reasonable. I would like it to be diverse and open to all faiths.

[Tommy Lavin]
That's what I was going to say, is I agree with you, but I agree with you if they opened it to all faiths and invited chaplains and ministers and religious leaders from all faiths. And unfortunately, in Texas, I do not believe that happens.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, I can't say that.

[Tommy Lavin]
I can't say it with 100% certainty, but I could take an educated guess from what I've seen and what I know living in Texas for a very long time, decades, that more than likely they're inviting in the Christian counselors in the area, the Christian, I'm sorry, chaplains and ministers and youth group leaders in the area. I'm happy to be proven wrong if some school says, no, look, we invited in the Muslim leaders and Hindu leaders and Buddhist leaders as well. Absolutely great.

Pat on your back. Congratulations. That's what you're supposed to do.

But again, like you said, that's after if a tragedy happens, like a school shooting or something like that. And that is then taking care of children at a different level, giving them all the different resources that they need. And it's technically not part of public school.

It's part of community outreach. Yeah, community outreach after a disaster happens.

[Lilin Lavin]
And it's not just for children, because when these things happen, the parents are there, everybody's there. They're all trying to cope with things. So what you're doing is just providing an avenue of support.

Whether or not people choose to take that avenue, that's neither here nor there. Having that avenue available is just being intelligent and compassionate and having something like just being prepared. So that's fine.

I would never, ever, ever have an issue with that. And I'd be happy to participate in programs like that because I think it's valuable. And I know, I know from being out there in the community that people do want to see satanic representation, that they feel that that's a part of their life and that they are happy when they see us show up to things and show up for people.

It does matter.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I mean, you hear people saying, you know, nobody wants to see satanists there. But when we show up, there is there is a significant amount of people that are not satanists. They're not part of TST. They're not, you know, they're just average, everyday people that come up to us and say, thank you for coming. You, your support was needed for this. We needed some other people. We needed you all here to help, you know, fight this cause.

And thank you for showing up. Thank you for your support. And so, you know, if we didn't provide any value, we sure as hell wouldn't have people coming up, thanking us or inviting us or, you know, all the things that we get from the community.

[Lilin Lavin]
And I appreciate every single one of those people. You know, I'm always happily surprised when I go out and do things publicly that people are so welcoming and they are so happy to see us out there. There are definitely people that get upset about it and they have every right to that too.

I've never had someone come up. Well, okay, that would be a lie. I don't often have people rudely come up to me and express that.

People will come up and have a conversation and express their feelings, which I totally support. And I'm always happy to have those conversations provided you're respectful. And yeah, I guess a few times there's been some ugly exchanges with people, which, you know, to be quite honest, I'll listen to a couple of things.

I'll try to provide some avenues of discourse and an open dialogue, but if the individual is just really adamant and they're only there because they're trying to vent, which is a natural way to deal with things that you're unhappy with. And I'm just going to politely decline and I'm going to remove myself from the situation because I don't owe you a conflict. But that's the thing.

You know, you just got to pick your battles. And for all religious leaders, I would say, but especially for people that are in a minority religion like ours, I just think the best way to deal with those kind of situations is to accept some people are just angry and some people are angry with reason and some people without reason and trying to decipher which is happening in a moment is really not going to make the difference. If they're so upset in that moment, you're really not going to be doing anything.

If you've clearly identified, they're not there to speak to you.

[Tommy Lavin]
I thought it was quite funny the way that when we went here and they sort of set that concert up in the hall, they set the concert up in the middle of the hall, so between the doors and like places like the bathroom, you know, so in order to get to the bathroom, you had to walk through this area and they're having this concert. They've got all these people recording and stuff. And I don't know if they either didn't think it out or they thought people would just be like, oh, you know what?

I'm just not going to go to the bathroom because they're having a concert that's lasting for, you know, not just one song, but they're doing song after song after song.

[Lilin Lavin]
Well, and just to be clear, it was the district building. And so, you know, there's a lobby and there's just like a big open area by the front windows. So it's kind of like sort of a lobby reception area.

And you have to, it's like the school sort of similar layout. You got to walk through to go to the restroom. So there's people lining the desk reception area.

There's people lining the window area. And then there's some people against the other wall going down the hall towards the bathroom. So they're in this kind of a square rectangular box shape.

And in the center, there's a few people with these rather ornate flags and like really pretty clothes and they're doing like, yeah, they've got a whole thing happening. So they're there and they're handing out the chaplain talking points, flyers to people. So they've got this really cute glossy with the back and front that looks kind of like something between NASCAR and an environmental like poster.

I don't know. It was like really interesting. But I took a picture of it and I put it online.

So it was just very, obviously, they were there with an agenda and it was all there. So I mean, again, great stuff. I suggest collecting those things with earnest, thanking them for it.

And then looking up the facts, because that right there is what they're claiming. And you have the absolute right and ability to counter that.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I just thought it was funny, because they're all obviously recording this for a reason. And then, of course, I walk right through the middle of it because I'm like, hey, y'all are the dumbasses that set this up right here in the middle. Technically, they shouldn't have been inside the building.

They should have been outside.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, but whatever.

[Tommy Lavin]
They were in there. Yeah.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. And then we had to go. Scowls.

Yeah. So we're walking through. And yeah, I did have my TST stuff.

Because again, in this situation, in every situation, I don't recommend going with any kind of like, you don't have to wear this stuff. You don't have to. It's enough to say, you know, I'm here as a Satanist.

You've got to gauge the situation and know what your ability to speak is. So I obviously would never say I'm here for TST. That's not my capacity. I'm not an official spokesperson for TST. Or I'm here representing my congregation if I'm not a congregation head or someone that's been given the ability to do that. So you have to be very careful how you approach a situation. But I was there as a minister with a congregation in the area. It was important people know we actually are here.

We're not here from another state.

[Tommy Lavin]
And we have members who have kids in that district.

[Lilin Lavin]
So it was very important for me to show the regional representation in this situation to get the point across that we live here. This is our community. We actually are interacting with this community.

You know, I have kids that go to school in this similar area. So I'm like, we're adjacent. So it's important to know your environment.

But we walk through. We've got our gear on. And you could just see people were just appalled.

And I just smile and wave and, you know, walk through like nothing's happening. Because again, pick your battles. You know, sometimes you kill them with kindness.

Really, it does work better that way. And then just went and found a quiet spot to sit. Some folks came up and talked to us, which was really cool.

And then go do your thing. And then I chose to remove myself from the environment. I didn't know when they would talk about the actual chaplaincy bill.

Sometimes it happened. Well, not the bill, but the voting of the bill. Every district in our state now gets to decide whether or not to implement it.

That's done at the board level. And then what requirements will be requested for the program to be in the school? Again, at the board level, the bill kind of does its own little thing.

And it leaves it very open. But the boards ultimately get to decide with votes from the community. So we go through and we do our thing.

And then I step out.

[Tommy Lavin]
Well, after you spoke, because you made opening comments. Right, right. Because we didn't know.

They told us, the community told us that last time, because the board meeting started at 7. They told us the last time they didn't get to the vote till about 11 p.m. And so you decided, I'm going to give opening statements because and most of the opening statements were about the chaplain. I mean, I think there's like one statement that didn't have to do with the chaplain vote, but everything else was centered around the chaplain vote.

So we made the opening statements. And then, like you said, we removed ourselves from the meeting after that.

[Lilin Lavin]
And then I stood outside because they had a TV set up so you could observe the proceedings. They did go right into the chaplaincy implementation. I think they had like three different scenarios and they went over some different things.

And kind of the back and forth. And ultimately, at that particular event, they chose not to implement the chaplaincy program. Whether or not I had anything to do with that influence, I can't say.

But I was really happy to have been able to speak and be part of like making them think about what they're doing and whether or not this is something they really want to open the doors to.

[Tommy Lavin]
Well, and they did like the question of, you know, well, what dress code, you know, will chaplains wear their religion? You know, will they be able to wear? And I think that probably that question, because you could tell it was an ad hoc.

It wasn't on their docket of things. I think that came up because, you know, you were there. You were in your TST shirt as a minister.

And it's like, oh, wait, hold on. If we open this up to everybody, how are we going to identify which chaplain is from which religion? But yeah, it was it was really interesting to see that for the open discussion, specifically for the voting of the chaplaincy.

They had a lot of people talking. And that's where the Christian Nationalists really packed them in.

[Lilin Lavin]
They did.

[Tommy Lavin]
They had, I think, a total of 20 people talking. And I want to say maybe five. You could tell were actually concerned parents and everybody else was brought in.

You could tell they were not from that district. They didn't have people. They were brought in in order to speak to try and get chaplains pushed into this district.

[Lilin Lavin]
There was one gal, and I have to give so much credit, I really do, who had gone and got ordained under the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and did the apostropharian opening invocation thing that they have, which is hilarious if you haven't heard it. But she came in, she put the conder on her head, and she did her whole thing. And then she explained how the chaplaincy bill was really ridiculous, you know, as ridiculous as her being there might seem or sound or whatever.

It was funny because, you know, she just came in to kind of thumb her nose at it in a very respectable way. And she was well-spoken. So it was really cool that other people showed up to just say, you know, think about what you're doing.

But yeah, overall, it was a good experience. If you're not someone that wants to be a public face, because it is really, I had to give my address. I had to give my information.

That is not something everyone's going to feel comfortable with and with all good reason. So don't feel like you have to do something like that. And again, check your boards because not everyone's going to require the same amount of information, but I get it.

There's safety to be considered when you're doing a board meeting. So you have to be able to check. And then the list of names is made public.

I did use my satanic pseudonym for my name, but my actual address and my actual phone number had to go in there with it. But that wasn't made public.

[Tommy Lavin]
That's given to the board.

[Lilin Lavin]
But the name is put out there publicly. So anybody in the community can look you up. So if you have any kind of reputation out there, that will be attached to your presence.

So keep that in mind when you're doing things in public.

[Tommy Lavin]
And you don't have to speak as a satanist. You can just go speak and say, as a concerned citizen, I am against bringing chaplains into school. So you don't even have to identify as a satanist.

[Lilin Lavin]
There were a few parents that were there that just spoke really well about the constitutional implications. There were parents that spoke on what the actual law is right now on the books and how this would actually affect certain aspects of the code that existed right now. So there was a lot of ways that you can go and still get the same message across without ever mentioning satan.

Again, my role there was to do it in a way to say, are you sure this is something you want to open the door to? Are you sure do you want us to be there? Because we will be there.

That's what the freedom of religion is. I get to be there. You don't get to tell people what religion can be represented if it's only one religion.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, especially if it's a public secular school. And my message consistently to parents is, if you want your children to learn about religion, send them to a private school and to all the religious private schools that cost a whole lot of money. If you really cared about your congregation and its members, well, maybe don't have three or four mansions.

Sell one of your mansions and lower the cost of your school. Because according to the Bible and the way Christianity is supposed to run, the churches are supposed to be there for the community. It's not supposed to be the community feeding the churches and making the ministers rich.

So there's well enough money in most of these churches. I mean, we've got a mega church being built up the road, which I can tell you runs well into the seven figures. Easily.

And that, you know, if you want private schools, if you want the children of your congregation to go to a private school, fucking build one.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, you can do a parochial school, and you could have whatever religious education you and the, you know, you and the educators plan to do. I think, you know, I would suggest letting parents have a little bit of involvement in what that is, since I personally think, regardless of your faith, home is the place that it should start. And then it should be supported by whatever religious group that you're doing.

And then, you know, blah, blah, blah. But really, I really wish individuals would take more involvement in their religious community, because that's the only way you're going to really have that involvement, whatever that is. Or if you're an atheist or a secularist or a humanist or, you know, whatever you are, just go out and do things.

There's a lot of things we can all do to better our communities. But it was still a good experience. And I very much appreciated being able to be part of that.

It was very last minute, so I didn't have as much time as I would have liked to prepare, but I still think it came out really good. And I definitely plan to do more.

[Tommy Lavin]
I think you did an awesome job. You really, really did. You know, and we were, when you dropped that hell Satan at the end, it was like, you know, we all kind of put up the horns and, you know, so it was good.

And you actually see the effect of this because there's other bills. There's a bill in Georgia now that they're trying to, that they tried to push through for chaplains. That specifically says no Satanists.

Now that's dead on arrival because you cannot, I mean, that blatantly goes against the constitution. You cannot say this religion is excluded. You don't have to like the religion, but you cannot that.

I mean, that goes right against the first amendment. You just can't do that. Now these crazy politicians will continue to try.

And I'm sure eventually one of these will get through, but we, you know, again, it goes back to being outspoken.

[Lilin Lavin]
It was really, it was really a neat experience because we had hung out prior with the secular group in our community, secular Houston, which is run by a really cool guy. And he's super involved in the community. They do a lot of things.

And we did a screening of God and country. So secular Houston kind of did that. Fantastic movie, highly recommend it.

Wonderful documentary type event. It had people from the religious community, evangelicals and other representatives. I believe there was a Catholic representative.

Yeah, there was many people of the Christian faith. So they were there actually speaking about the experience of Christian nationalism and the creep of this theocratic nationalistic mentality into politics. The danger that it poses.

From their perspective and the way it's affected even, you know, smaller community churches. A lot of people may not realize some of the smaller churches are the ones that are really making the most change in the community where they're providing clothing or food or outreach of different types to the community. They have a very intimate relationship with their community members, with their congregants.

So that particular type of brand of Christianity is slowly dying. And a lot of these long-time generational churches are being killed by these large mega churches, mega centers that are nationalistic. And they're there really to just drain people's wallets, build their own fortune, pump it into the politics.

And then they're not really benefiting the communities at large. So people are being duped by this very shock rock type, fun adrenaline junkie event. Lots of lights, lots of music, lots of really like heightened.

A lot of these people have backgrounds in advertising, marketing, psychology. So you're dealing with a lot of really interesting ways of using color, wording, tone, intonation. All these things are being used to really affect the congregation and to elicit a specific response.

And that response is, give me your money.

[Tommy Lavin]
Give me your money and hate, which is hate and bigotry along with that, pushing that. Yeah, I agree. The documentary was great.

It was. I would highly, highly recommend it for.

[Lilin Lavin]
And Andrew Seidel was in it, who I really think is an amazing constitutional historian. This is not a Christian nation. This is one of his books, one that I've read and really enjoyed.

He was there speaking about the dangers. So there was a ton of really great perspectives. And I love that it came from the faith community because they're the ones that are really in the way of leading the charge to change this, to kind of take back what their religion means to them and not let it become this rampant political machine that it has become.

So I definitely suggest people sit down. It's supposed to be coming out as of this recording within another couple of weeks. So just keep an eye out on God and Country.

It was really good. There was a lot of buzz about it. At the time we did the screening, I don't think you can get it outside of just knowing a group that was doing these type of events.

But it was really great. And if you could do it as a watch party, highly, highly recommend it because we sat in there with people of different faiths and no faith at all against secular group. But there was a mix of different attendees.

So it was cool the after conversation to just really hear what the community was thinking, how people were feeling, different ways to have action to combat some of these very negative things happening within our own local community. So I definitely think if you can swing something like that and do something like that and even invite people of other backgrounds to have these open discussions so we can open up more things, totally please do that. So we started the weekend.

Was it a Sunday?

[Tommy Lavin]
The week is a blur.

[Lilin Lavin]
I want to say that was a Friday. It's a blur. I think it was a Friday night.

It was absolutely a Friday night. It was a Friday night. And so we kind of did that.

And then we got wind of this. So that's how short notice I had between Friday night and then what was it? School board meeting was Tuesday.

[Tommy Lavin]
Tuesday.

[Lilin Lavin]
So then I kind of like, I think I found out about that Sunday night. And so I put in all my stuff so I could do the, because you have to apply for it and register and they have to have a spot. So I got my confirmation about an hour before.

That's the way that board does it. But so, yeah, we went from garden country to, oh, they're doing a thing about chaplains in this district right by you. Can you do that?

Yeah, absolutely. I can. I can work it into my schedule.

No problem. Go over there, do that. And then finally, we kind of had a nice ending to this like chaotic week where we went to the local pagan market, which was super awesome.

[Tommy Lavin]
On Saturday.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. We've talked about those before. The Polk County pagan market rate.

It's about two hours outside over by Sam Houston area. They did their new event area. And oh my gosh, was this location so much better?

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. So what we've battled in the past, if you followed us or listened to us, we probably, you know, we did a whole podcast about this thing one time because the amount and the anger from the Christian nationalist protesters that would normally show up because they could show up at a park, even though the group would rent out this area of the park, which basically made it theirs. These protesters were able to sit on the outside and they would divert traffic.

They would block the road. And even when, you know, the police were called, the police would like do nothing about it. They would even walk into the event.

But now because the person that puts on the Polk County pagan market, he bought a plot of land and he's been building this plot, you know, kind of restoring this plot of land, getting it ready for this. And we were able to use his plot of land. There's nowhere for the protesters to be.

They couldn't, they can't park on the main road because that's impeding actual road traffic. So they would get arrested for that. And so they were absent.

And it was so cool because it was the first time that this event has been put on where you didn't have a bullhorn in the background of some guy yelling about bestiality and all sorts of really fucked up shit that it's like, wait a minute. You guys are supposed to be out here protesting and trying to convert people over to Christians, but it's nothing but hate, which again, that is the brand of Christian nationalism. Now, you know, it kind of came from that evangelical, which we learned in God and country that every evangelical sermon has to be based on a set of books by a Nazi.

[Lilin Lavin]
Well, no, no, no, no. One of the, one of the reference materials that you have to, they have a list of books they had. I don't know if this book is still in there.

They have a list of books that they have to reference their sermon against. So when they do a sermon, they kind of have to like check it against this reference material. So it's taking these boxes.

And one of the reference materials was in fact, a Nazi, not just any Nazi. Not just any Nazi that helped to write a lot of the material for Hitler himself. So that was, that was something that the, the individual from God and country, he, he said he'd not, he did not realize this.

He did not know that this book that was being used so frequently by them.

[Tommy Lavin]
No, he knew it was used frequently, but he didn't know that this person, no, it was that the person that wrote the book was a Nazi. He did like, no, he just did the typical. I went through seminary school.

And this was one of the materials. I'm an evangelical preacher. This is what all my evangelical preachers tell me to reference my sermons against.

So every sermon for, for evangelicals has to be sort of referenced against this sort of stuff. And Oh, as I started to open up my eyes, as I started to see how these people were acting, especially once 2016, 2015 and 2016 came around and I saw them basically take their values and throw them out the window because they knew, well, even if this person isn't following our values, we're going to just pose them as, you know, the, the, the, the story in the Bible of the pagan king that, you know, and, and so they, they kind of threw all their values out the window.

And so then he started looking and then he's like, Holy shit, this material that I've been referencing for all these years that I've been writing sermons is done by a Nazi, you know, Hitler's Nazi, like Hitler's chaplain, you know, I mean, and he was, he was just floored. It was like, wow.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. It was also interesting because I don't know that he meant all, I doubt he meant all, but he said that some of the reference material they used, not reference materials, some of the things he used to point to of what not to be was Donald Trump. So that was also interesting because he slowly watched his, you know, fellow congregation leaders, ministers, whatever.

And he watched them more and more begin to embrace Donald Trump.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah.

[Lilin Lavin]
And that was also really interesting. I'm not saying to, or not to embrace Donald Trump. What I'm saying was it was interesting to hear him say that he had been the antithesis of what an individual should be when it comes to, you know, a Christian or what Christian like behavior, Christ-like behavior is to them.

Donald Trump represented the antithesis of this. And yet they began to kind of find ways to justify supporting and backing this individual. And embrace.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. So it was like, he said up until about 2014, the evangelicals often use Donald Trump as an example. This is what you shouldn't, this is the type of person you shouldn't be.

And then as the money started to flow in, in 2015, and I guess he invited all these evangelical leaders to, you know, to a special meeting. He said he didn't go, but all of his friends were texting him saying, this is our guy. This guy, he's the one that's going to do it.

He's going to get Christianity into the government. He's going to do this. And so they just totally traded out their values again in order.

And that's one of the things that I've been talking about a lot is they don't care how they get into government as long as they get into government. So they're totally fine with somebody that kind of, you know, breaks every so-called value that they have, as long as the end goal gets them what they want, which is to convert America into a theocracy. That's what they're looking to do.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, it was just, it was really interesting to learn about it. Cause I didn't know that either, that that had been one of the reference books for creating any kind of sermon. So it was like, just crazy to me.

I mean, would you let, what is it? Gerbils be a medical reference? I mean, just thinking about that is just abhorrent.

It's abhorrent because this was not a man that was helpful to society. He destroyed society and he used a lot of psychological crap. And it just shows this deviant undercurrent of.

[Tommy Lavin]
Well, they use nationalism too. I mean, the Nazis use nationalism. That's how they grew, you know, so quickly and got people to just kind of come under their ranks.

[Lilin Lavin]
I think it was Dietrich Bonhoeffer. I want to say it was Dietrich Bonhoeffer. I don't remember though.

I believe it was Dietrich Bonhoeffer. That was the one of the reference, the reference guide they were talking about, but I'll have to.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I'll have to double check. I looked at it. We had so many things going on this week.

I had it on my phone at one point.

[Lilin Lavin]
I remember it. Nevermind. I know Dietrich was mentioned in the conversation, but there was a lot of like, I was looking through some of the different stuff and then for whatever reason, I can't, I'll try to link it when we put this up.

What was crazy was just, to me, the idea of a Nazi of that level, Nazi at all.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, but not just any Nazi. This wasn't just like, I'm a Nazi officer. This wasn't just any Nazi.

This was like Hitler's, write me sermons, Nazi.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, I was wrong about Bonhoeffer. But just, it was crazy learning that. I don't know what it is.

I've never been that type of evangelical ministry. I don't know what it looks like for them to write up these sermons or how this stuff is put together, but I would be really curious to know what the other books that they use as reference, who those individuals are as well. So it just really, it's insidious that they didn't even tell people what they were referencing.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. Yeah, they didn't. So, well, I mean, so back to the, back to the pagan market, because we kind of jumped, jumped, jumped.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. We did a little ADD there.

[Tommy Lavin]
Welcome to my mind. Yeah, we did a little ADD stuff there. The pagan market was so nice because we had no bullhorns.

It was just so peaceful and people were, and they were even commenting as they walked around. They were like, wow, we can actually like talk about stuff now because the main subject isn't what's up with these Christians yelling all this horrible shit in the background.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. It was Kittel.

[Tommy Lavin]
Kittel. Okay.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. Bonhoeffer was talking about, like, I think he actually was out there speaking against it, but Kittel was the one that Hitler himself used for his.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. And there, that's the reference material for evangelicals to put sermons together or used to be. I don't know if they've removed Kittel or not at this point, but it's still, it kind of shows the roots.

[Lilin Lavin]
I did it again. Yes. The pagan market was good.

We had one guy come up and talk to us. He said that they weren't, they were like, so we don't have to talk about the, we don't have to talk about the guys over here shouting crazy stuff. So what do we talk about?

Hey, why don't we, why don't we actually talk about what we're doing today? Oh yeah. We could do that now.

So he was really funny. He's came up and started just talking with us, but it was so different because people were relaxed. I kind of, at first I noticed that it was the usual kind of energy that, that I always see.

A little anxiety.

[Tommy Lavin]
Tiny touch. Yeah.

[Lilin Lavin]
And then as the day went on, granted, it was a windy, cold day, not freezing or anything, but cold for Texas. It was a bit of breezy. So everybody was just doing their thing.

And as the wind calmed and as the weather warmed, people just started just wandering around and talking. I had so many deep conversations with people. People were laughing.

Um, they do at this particular market, there was a Easter egg hunt, which the kids had a blast with. Um, granted they're not Easter eggs in this capacity. They're the actual original all-star eggs, um, that go along with that festival, but they were the same little cute plastic eggs.

So, um, they did the egg hunt. There were some special eggs. People donated, um, the eggs and then gifts that they could trade the, uh, golden eggs in.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. Like the golden goose egg.

[Lilin Lavin]
I saw one of the, the, one of the kids. The girl scout that always comes up and hangs out with us. She's super cool.

There's this one little girl scout that comes up every time we go to these events and she says that, oh, she's my favorite person and comes up and gives me a big hug. I remember our first event, the protesters were super freaking awesome. I might've mentioned this in the previous, one of the previous episodes.

[Tommy Lavin]
Protesters were horrible.

[Lilin Lavin]
The protesters were super freaking awful. And so she comes up with this new kind of girl scout cookie. It was like a raspberry, something or other that they had just gotten.

And she brought us some free boxes and she's like, those people were so mean to you. Um, here's some cookies, like, oh, okay. Thank you.

And she just, from then on, it was like, we got along famously and we'd get hugs and she just really sweet. I mean, really cool. Mom's really cool.

Family's really cool. Um, so we've made so many cool relationships with people and this event, it just got to be that people were having fun. People were positive.

People were sharing and enjoying each other's company. Um, and, uh, Jason McClellan, the guy that runs all this, he was just doing his normal rounds, checking on everybody. And the worst thing that happened throughout the day was somebody was super salty, apparently didn't stop to read any of the signs.

And I'm telling you, there were signs on the road, near the road, by the road and all throughout the market.

[Tommy Lavin]
To get into the market, you have to walk past the sign that says, you know, welcome to the Pagan, Polk County Pagan Market.

[Lilin Lavin]
Right. And I believe they had Ostara Festival on there as well. So there was a lot of signage.

So apparently these folks, and I do think, I believe, I remember them kind of salty face walking through and they go through, never stopped to actually talk to us and apparently wrote up a whole Facebook post, which I believe you shared. Um, she was just like mad. She thought it was a craft show and realized that I think hit our booth.

[Tommy Lavin]
And then all of a sudden saw all the pentagrams around them and they're surrounded by all these, these evil people everywhere.

[Lilin Lavin]
She took time to pray for us. And you know, thank you so much.

[Tommy Lavin]
They narrowly escaped back to their car and then in their car, they prayed for everybody there. Did you not read? I mean, I guess maybe that's, maybe that is part of the problem.

None of these people, none of these Christian nationalists actually read their book. They just listen to the person telling them what to think. And they just think what the person tells them.

So they don't actually open the book and read. I would almost bet I could go and probably most of these people's house, find the Bible and crack it open and almost be like, you know, in the movies where they crack open an old book and like all the dust comes out of it. You're like, because they've never actually fucking open the Bible.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. Now I think I suffer from sometimes the opposite issue. We're all munched like I did with Bonner because I was reading like so much on it.

After I went to that movie, I was like, well, well, who is this person? And what, what is there anything to learn about it? And so it turned out that that was a different thing.

My brain got wrapped around. But yeah, Kittle was the POS that they, they use as reference material for creating sermons, which really turned off the gentleman that was speaking about it. But I feel like the rise of Christian nationalism has severely shaken a lot of people's faith.

And for those that are part of the faith community, that really sucks because I know that for a lot of them, this is a very important growth phase in their life, whether or not it's the only one they ever experienced. That's not my business. But nationalism has destroyed a lot of the things that they believe they stood for and made them question their own values.

And I don't think it aligns with healthy values that nationalism is really kind of tearing apart the things that help us to relate to one another and really make religion a valuable tool. Again, obviously I don't support certain components of things, but I do feel like as someone that wants to be a part of the interfaith community, you know, Satanism is also a religion. So I can't sit here and argue.

We have valid religious beliefs. We have these things. Other people are going to see it negatively and they're going to disagree with us.

So whatever I feel about other people's religion is not their problem. It's my problem.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yes. As long as they're not pushing it down your throat and saying, we're making laws that you have to obey our religion. That's the biggest.

I have no problem with Christians. If a Christian wants to practice their faith, that's fine. I would never stop a person from doing that.

What I will get pissed off about is when you then take your faith and you try and wrap it into law and say, Oh, everybody else has to, even if they don't believe in the same thing I do, they have to act. Yeah. According to my.

Which is bonkers, right?

[Lilin Lavin]
Because I could tell you, I've known tons of Christians, even within one congregation and their interpretation of the Bible varies dramatically from one individual to another. So to say that one person's interpretation of their faith should be applied to all people, even within the Christian faith doesn't work. Nope.

Same with Satanism. I've often said it. I understand the tenants one way, one way.

There's no absolute way to read the tenants. And if I try to tell you how you can interpret tenants, because the way I interpret them, you'd probably have a problem with me. And rightfully so.

So it's the same thing. I have no business telling people what Satanism means to them. If they ask me, I can tell them what Satanism means to me.

[Tommy Lavin]
Right. And we do sometimes clash on what Satanism is. You have one set of beliefs and I look at it somewhat differently.

And I think that's a good thing because we could either have a healthy debate over it and maybe move a little each way. Maybe not. It doesn't have to happen.

Or we could just accept, hey, you look at it that way. That's cool. You have every right and I look at it this way.

That's cool. I have every right. As long as we're not harming people, as long as we're not out there trying to tell people, you have to do this, you know, then that's fine.

I mean, you're allowed to have your own interpretation of things.

[Lilin Lavin]
Oh, yeah. And I think if you just blindly go along with something, there's something wrong. We've definitely had some incredibly spirited conversations between each other.

Just trying to think, oh, you think that? Really? I didn't know you felt that way.

Why do you feel that way? And then we would have different conversations. And often, you know, it'll be that level.

And occasionally, it's not quite so polite. But it does usually land in a fruitful discussion. And occasionally, you know, when I suggest anyone do this, there's a timeout period.

Like, hey, I'm a little emotional about this right now. I feel a certain way. So I'm going to take a little time to compose myself.

And we could talk about this again later. Very healthy tactic. Definitely recommend it.

But it's normal, you know. And that's what I love about the tenants. That's why I'm glad we don't have some freaking foundational book written, you know, by Lucian Greaves that we all go back to and look at and say, this is the only way.

Oh, Lucian.

[Tommy Lavin]
So I'm glad.

[Lilin Lavin]
But, you know, in light of our recent group conversation that had like a really awesome panel of folks, including Lucian, where he really said, you know, yeah, I really could do better on disseminating information. And I want to be able to do more. And I want to help encourage people to do more.

And if you want to do more, there's tons of different ways to do that. And this was one of the ways that I was able to do that. And I'm so glad I could.

And I know there's other options for people. Believe it or not, the Satanic Temple has a satanic representation campaign that actually works to understand legislation from different states and help people do things behind the scenes, research, writing, exploration. And you can reach them.

I believe it's SRC at the satanic temple dot org. And so you can go to them if you want to try and see ways that you can contribute. I believe they'll probably even take help from people if they're not involved with TST, but just feel very compelled to help in different capacities.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I don't know. I'll let them speak for themselves as far as what I know.

[Lilin Lavin]
I know I as an individual within the community of of the Houston area, I'm always happy to get help from people. Whatever capacity you guys want to help from the community, do that. Talk to your local congregation, see what they need.

And then hopefully the congregations will then encourage people to take that and point you to the right places where you could be the most useful. Yeah. So, yeah, it was a very busy week.

[Tommy Lavin]
Very busy, but it was busy. Good. You know, I mean, it was it was one of those and it was the timing was perfect because it came off of our recording from from last week where we were like, hey, do stuff, you know, and then all of a sudden, you know, it's one of those careful what you ask for sort of things, because then we got a week full of stuff to do.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, well, I mean, God and country. I think we had that one booked for like a month. Yeah, I've been waiting to go and I've been wanting to see that particular thing for a while because I was super psyched about it.

I thought it was a smart way to kind of approach it and was not disappointed. Totally enjoyed it. And then it was really cool to have the opportunity to do something about the situation.

Not everyone gets to do that. So that was really awesome, too. If you're so inclined, talk to people that can help you figure out a way to be able to do things like that.

And if you're just wanting to participate in community stuff, look what's going on. You don't have to be out there. You're a Satanist.

That's great. Find out if there's a soup kitchen around you. Are there animals that need to be walked at a local shelter?

Is there a boys and girls club that has kids that are desperately in need of role models to help them feel loved, respected, and seen in the community? Check that out. Go get vetted for that program.

There are no shortage of things within our communities, respectively, that we can't find a way to contribute, whether it's as a Satanist or just as a person that's concerned about their community. I would hope that you're not just out there doing only Satan things because our religion, all of these things are Satan things. Everything that's compassion, empathy, providing support for people, respecting their choices, and giving them a voice, all of these things are Satanic.

You don't have to use that. Bodily autonomy. Yeah.

The word doesn't have to be there with it. We know what we're out there doing it for. We know what drives us.

It's our combined love for this philosophy and the way that we apply it in our lives. And that's what our religion is. So I definitely encourage you guys, even if you're not sure, find ways.

[Tommy Lavin]
And even if it's just sending a tweet, when they put out these stupid laws, even if it's just sending a tweet or a Facebook message saying, this is bullshit, or I don't agree with this, it does help.

[Lilin Lavin]
Call it out. Call out the sponsors of the bill. Now, I'm going to be very clear.

If you're a congregation head or a minister, this is only for you. We can't say, don't vote for so-and-so. They just put out this bill.

Make sure to vote for this person because they would never do that. That's a negative, Ghost Rider. Do not do that.

[Tommy Lavin]
But we can say, you know, this is a bad bill.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. You know, this is poorly worded. This is how it's going to affect other people and including us.

This is the reason why I don't support this. These are the areas that I'm concerned about. You can talk about all of that.

You can even call them an asshole.

[Tommy Lavin]
You know, I could say Ted Cruz is an asshole or Trump is an asshole. You know, I'm not telling you which way to vote. I'm just saying Trump's an asshole.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. Yeah. Like a certain person that just gave a Stepford Wife speech recently following the, you know, recent address.

Yeah. I feel certain something about that person.

[Tommy Lavin]
That made up a whole or, you know, changed the dates and the people in charge and all of that of a whole situation. Yeah.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
When you can call that shit out.

[Lilin Lavin]
As a survivor of, you know, CST, child sex trafficking, as a survivor of that, I felt incredibly freaking pissed off that Brit went on and went on to use the voice of people like me for her own personal political agenda. I felt incredibly angry that this person would abuse me again, in my opinion, by using me to further their agenda. And they don't do anything to help people that are actually being affected by it here in the United States.

They're not actively putting out bills or doing things to help people that have been have experienced that type of trauma. So if you were out there advocating and actively working to change those people's lives, I would feel maybe a little differently. And if you were asked to use that story, then I would feel maybe a little bit differently.

But honestly, I don't think it belonged there.

[Tommy Lavin]
It didn't belong there. And if it's going to be used, it has to have the true components behind it. Who was president at the time, what the date was, what country it happened in.

That's just an example.

[Lilin Lavin]
I'm going on a tangent because it really pissed me off. But yeah, you can talk to these things. You can speak about these things.

Just don't threaten anybody. I mean, in general, that's just don't do that at all. I just, you know, there's no help in that.

And speak intelligently. If you don't know something, you don't know it. Don't pretend you do.

It's not going to help you. And it's going to come across. But if you do know about it, whatever capacity you know about it, say something.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. Well, cool. I think, you know, that, you know, the point of this was just to kind of show the one kind of cap the week that we had, because there was a lot of good stuff that happened this week.

Very busy. And just to give some examples. And I think, I think we hit on those notes.

[Lilin Lavin]
With our same usual over exuberant, well, my over exuberant contribution. A little bit of ADD there. I apologize.

But yeah, I appreciate everyone, whatever capacity you're out there doing something, even if it's just you affecting your life and making a change that you recognize you need for your own mental health, for your own health, for your own community, for whatever it is you're doing. That that's enough. And that matters.

Absolutely.

[Tommy Lavin]
So with that, I think we will wrap up wherever you're at. Good morning. Good evening.

Good afternoon. And Hail Satan.