Ep.25: Crisis of Choice - Kate Cox and the Erosion of Personal Liberties

# Satanists Nextdoor
# Ep.25: Crisis of Choice - Kate Cox and the Erosion of Personal Liberties

[Lilin Lavin]
Welcome, dear listeners, to Satanist Next Door. We're your hosts, Lilin Lavin and Tommy Lavin. Whether you're an open-minded, curious onlooker or a fellow Satanist seeking camaraderie, our goal is to share our personal experiences and delve into the intricate tapestry of Satanism in our daily lives, occasionally inviting other guests to share their unique perspectives, leaving no pentagram unturned.

We'll explore how our beliefs shape our views on society, dive into struggles and triumphs we've encountered, and reveal the humanity that unites us all. So grab your favorite chalice and join us on this captivating journey. Satanist Next Door is ready to peel back the curtain and offer you a glimpse into our world, one captivating episode at a time.

[Tommy Lavin]
Hello and welcome to another episode of Satanist Next Door. So tonight we're, you know, we were talking about some different topics. And Lillian, you had one that has really been on your mind this, this last couple of days that, you know, you said that you wanted to talk about, and that was the Kate Cox thing going on here, because it really, it bothered you and it botherss me too, but you know, I think it's only gotten worse since we first started talking about it.

[Lilin Lavin]
And, you know, I'll go ahead and throw it out. There's a little trigger warning for folks that might be sensitive to things that have to do with abortion topics. But that being said, we know that there's reproductive health care crisis happening in all of the United States right now, ever since the overturning of Roe v.

Wade. And I, it actually started about two days ago. I saw two good things come out where one of them was that Kate Cox initially was given the go ahead by the first court that this went through to, to go ahead and have an emergency abortion.

And then after that, I saw another ruling where the Wisconsin was, was essentially granted the right to have abortion open up again.

[Tommy Lavin]
They tried to block it in Wisconsin.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. And the judge struck it down. Judge struck it down.

So that was, that was where it was good. So that was a positive. I was really happy for the individual in Texas because it's very difficult.

And the important thing about that is this individual, Kate Cox, the fetus they're carrying has a condition called trisomy 18. Yeah, I believe that's it. It's also called Edwards syndrome.

And every case, of course, with abnormalities like that is different and you know, there's no one way or another. These are all different instances and each individual gets to handle it how they want. This individual already has two kids, was pretty much told that this was an unviable pregnancy.

And even if it was to make it all the way through that, if the fetus was born and then the baby did make it through that process, it was very likely to die then or shortly thereafter.

[Tommy Lavin]
A very painful death to, from what I understand it. I was reading an article and they did an ultrasound. So right now, I mean, as, as the fetus is, it's like it's twine spine is twisted.

It's feed. I mean, there's, this is not a salvageable, viable pregnancy in any way, shape or form.

[Lilin Lavin]
And it causes physical growth delays during development. The life expectancy is incredibly short and it has, they're usually accompanied by several life threatening complications in addition to just some of the other things that you see. So it's not for those that may have had gone through this, I'm not going to speak for you, but it is not something that you want to find out that you're dealing with when you very much wanted to, to have a pregnancy and you were looking forward to that baby being born.

So, you know, not to be insensitive, but this individual was aware that this is a non-viable pregnancy. As I said, already had two kids, has had C-sections. If the fetus is to pass during this period to do the process of utilizing natural drugs, hormones and to cause that to be pushed out would possibly cause her to hemorrhage and die or cause other life threatening issues and possibly the future of her being able to carry a pregnancy to term.

Again, she already has two kids. She does want a bigger family. This is not something she was looking to just do.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. This wasn't an unwanted pregnancy. This isn't a case of an abortion where they're arguing over an unwanted pregnancy.

This is one where the mother very much wanted a child, but it's just medically not viable. The fetus, the doctor basically said there's no chance for this fetus and it puts the mother in severe health risk as well. She's already been to the hospital twice and she's 20 weeks pregnant.

So she's only 20 weeks pregnant and she's already been to the hospital twice for issues with multiple complications.

[Lilin Lavin]
So the Texas abortion law pretty much states that substantial impairment of a major bodily function or death must be essentially imminent. There has to be a medical reason for it. So this, in my opinion, would probably be a medical reason.

And yet, unfortunately for this individual, Ken Paxton, the attorney general here decided to go after her after she got that judgment. And the important part of that, he sent a letter to every hospital that the doctor has privileges at. So not going after her because they can't, decided to then go after not only the doctor, any staff, any facility that decided to aid in the process of the judge granting the abortion to go ahead, said that they would essentially life imprisonment if you assisted in the process.

And I believe it was like $100,000 fine. Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
$100,000 fine and possible life imprisonment.

[Lilin Lavin]
So now we're using these fear tactics and threats. And if that wasn't bad enough, because, you know, again, two days ago, yes, you can do it. The judge granted it.

Ken Paxton jumps in to say, okay, here, if you do this, this is what you're going to be looking at. Here.

[Tommy Lavin]
I'm a white guy that can't have babies. And yet I'm going to tell a woman who has a serious medical condition. Whose life is at risk.

Yeah. Whose life is at risk. What she can and cannot do with her body.

Welcome to Texas, by the way.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. So then as if that wasn't bad enough, another judge says, no, it's fine. You know, go ahead.

So only then three Texas Supreme Court justices, because Ken Paxton says, intervene, intervene. We need somebody. So the Supreme Court of Texas intervenes and says, no.

Yeah. No, you cannot get this care that you very much need. And it just, yeah.

I can't even be disgusted enough for this, this situation.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. I mean, in this day and age, it wasn't bad enough that we lost Roe, but then you hear all these people saying, oh no, no, no. They, you know, if the life of the mother or rape or incense, oh, we were still keeping things like that.

You know, this is the talking points you kind of hear from some of that ideology. You know, they, they try and make it sound not so bad, but you want to glimpse into where Christian nationalists are looking to bring America in 2024. Look at Texas.

Texas is like the red flag for everybody to see. This is where they're looking to try and do to America. And now on top of that, because you know, these, these really radical conservative ideology in the States that they did try and let people vote because they thought, oh, well, we were a really conservative state.

So, you know, why don't we let our people vote? And we're going to show them, we're going to show them that, that people don't want abortion. Well, guess what?

They lost every time and abortion stood up even in States like Kansas and things like that. I mean, these are blood red States and still they got their asses kicked. So now they're like, well, you know what?

Fuck that. Fuck having people vote because as they voted in Iowa or Iowa or Ohio, it was Ohio. It was Ohio.

They voted, said yes. And now the legislature is basically backtracking and doing what Texas does and say, well, we don't really care what your vote was. We're just going to make it illegal.

[Lilin Lavin]
We thought you'd go a different way.

[Tommy Lavin]
We thought you'd do a different way. So, so yeah, again, you want a glimpse at what abortion will look like in the United States, because now they want to make this a national thing because at first the argument with Dobbs was states rights. Now that states rights aren't really working out that well for them.

Now they say that federally, they, they want it federal. Well, Roe was federal. I mean, if we want federal fine, let's go back to Roe, right?

You know, why don't we just reset back to Roe, but that's not what they want to do. They want a federal ban. And again, look at this case, this, this, this gives you the whole, it doesn't matter if the mother's life is in danger.

It doesn't matter if the fetus is viable. The mother will still have to carry a dead fetus to term.

[Lilin Lavin]
Right. And, and let's just be very clear, right? I mean, when you look at Roe v.

Wade, this was an individual who had been raped. The ruling never came in time for them. They continued to pursue it because they felt like no one else should have to go through what they went through.

And so now you have Kate Cox essentially doing the same thing because she's halfway through this pregnancy and it's gone to the Supreme court. The Supreme court's gone against her, like the Texas Supreme court. So now it has to escalate.

So we won't probably see something in time, but maybe I'm going to be hopeful for her. Maybe she can't easily travel. I'm assuming because of the extreme strain that she's under already.

And now, you know, putting herself out there like this, it can't be easy because in extremist States like this, you're obviously going to get a lot of wackadoodles that want to make an example of her.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. I mean, they, these, these extremists, I mean, the posts that I was seeing is just sickening. They're like, something, something to the point of, yeah, her baby's going to die.

She just wants to kill it quicker, which is so, it's just so wrong.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. You know, you, you know, that this is going to happen. It's inevitable.

You want to a prolong the suffering just because your morality dictates that something should have to suffer. So you don't have to feel bad about the ideology that you've gotten behind being, you know, affected. I think that, you know, God wants to weigh in on it.

And so you should just let it suffer and languish.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. Because God wants things to suffer because that's, that's how you learn lessons from God.

[Lilin Lavin]
Or you try to do the most just compassionate thing possible and things at an earlier phase where individuals, you know, can, she might be able to continue to, to go on to have another pregnancy, which is what she wants. And the fetus doesn't develop to a point where it has to exist maybe in extreme agony upon birth.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. I mean, if, and it is a huge, if from everything I've read, if this fetus made it to birth and was able to be delivered, it's life expectancy is about two weeks of agonizing, excruciating pain. So constipated this, all this fetus will ever know is pain.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. And I can't see how that's a positive, but that again, we're not dealing with people that are playing with a full deck. It is completely just indoctrination at this point, in my opinion.

But why is this important? What would Kate Cox is going through? What's happening here in Texas?

What other states are seeing? Well, Kate can do something a lot of people can't do. She has the ability through the legal system to have a voice.

A lot of people right now are going through very similar things. It might not be trisomy 18. I've seen other stories come out where people should have been able to just make the choice that was best for them in a very difficult, painful situation and couldn't.

And, you know, maybe some of them just don't have the same platform that Kate has. And so Kate's doing the best she can to be a voice for those people too.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. There, there is a whole nother group of women that are assuming this, that she was part of that actually as well. Yeah.

And then hers kind of spun off on its own. A whole nother group of women that are assuming the state of of similar situations, either they were bleeding out something like that. I mean, basically doctors in, in Texas are so afraid to assist with a miscarriage that they're not giving an abortion.

They are assisting to save a mother's life who is miscarrying. Right.

[Lilin Lavin]
Sorry, folks. Yes. It's very much the same procedure.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. And so they're so afraid of, of helping with that, that they're basically telling women, we can't help you go back into the parking lot. And when you're bleeding out, come back in or severe fever or, yeah, you essentially have to be at death's door.

Yeah. Or let the infection get bad enough that you are, you know, you're running a high fever and like you said, you're, you're at the point of possibly dying. Then we can help you maybe.

[Lilin Lavin]
So yeah, let's punish people. Right. So what you're saying is, again, in my opinion, what I'm seeing is you have to lose your rights to have rights.

You have to be violated to have the right to something. You have to be told you don't matter enough until it's necessary for you to matter. And that's a horrible place to put people.

And anyone that has reproductive capability is at risk of this, which includes our trans community, which includes our youth. It is anybody that may need care for any reason. And again, you don't need a reason for an abortion other than you don't want to be pregnant.

Right. I'm never going to not say that.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah.

[Lilin Lavin]
You know, I'm, I'm very sorry for people that feel like they should have had a different option, a capability. Guys, if you want to have the right to say something about whether or not an abortion should happen, start with your ejaculation, because that's the only voice you get. Whatever you choose to put that like out there in, then once it affects another human being, it stops being your choice.

[Tommy Lavin]
Exactly. I mean, where a man's rights truly ends in a, in their choice when it comes to the choice of whether a woman carries a fetus to term or not ends when they ejaculate. They have that choice.

They have the choice to not ejaculate in a way that will get a person pregnant. And I say person, because again, sometimes when we're talking about abortion, I just naturally go to say women, because it's, it's, you know, it's kind of just a natural thing, but it does, like you said, it includes our trans individuals as well. So if me saying woman, just understand, I do try and correct when, when I catch myself incorrect to say person, because it really is people, anybody who can carry a fetus is affected by this.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. And it's, it goes way beyond this because as a Satanist, one of the things that matters the most. And one of the reasons I aligned so strongly, especially with the satanic temple is the emphasis on bodily autonomy.

And that is something I think people lose track of what that means. When you're talking about the trans community, it means being able to make choices about your body, whether or not that's to, you know, go forward with sex changes, or any of the things that transition, any kind of right that you have. I mean, it really comes down to anything, plastic surgery, bodily autonomy, sex, bodily autonomy, being struck by a parent, being struck at school, bodily autonomy.

There's like a litany of things, anything that you have a right to say what happens to your body, period. Everything that could involve you as a person, you have a right to say whether or not your body can be touched, altered, used. It's yours.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. And some people might say, well, I can't have children. It doesn't matter to me.

Right, right. But they might, they might take the point, I can't have children. So, you know, this doesn't really affect me.

Well, no, actually, it kind of does in quite a few ways. If you are a person with a penis that can ejaculate, well, you could even using birth control, which again, there, that's another topic that we can talk about a little bit. They're trying to go after birth control as well.

But, you know, maybe you don't want to be a parent. And, and the person you're with doesn't want to be a parent either. And something happens, the condom breaks, something like that.

[Lilin Lavin]
You have medication, your birth control fails.

[Tommy Lavin]
You know, you've brought up as we were, we've talked before, you know, things with our relationship that, you know, it could bring up risk.

[Lilin Lavin]
Right. You know, I mean, occasionally, we have other women involved in our relationship. And, you know, they have just as much say over their body, their rights.

And, you know, we've been very clear at this point in our life, we're not looking for any additional children. So, you know, we have those conversations, but, you know, things happen. And you want to have those rights to choose, you know, either way, what you will or won't allow with your body, including the right to abortion, including the right to carry a pregnancy to term, either one.

But it goes further than that. So you look at Texas as an example, I don't know about other states, but let's just look at things like the obscenity statute, where, you know, just about to go there.

[Tommy Lavin]
We actually have an obscenity statute in Texas. So if you don't know about it, you should look it up. This isn't like one of those stupid, don't get my fish drunk, like they have in Oklahoma.

[Lilin Lavin]
Hello, Oklahoma.

[Tommy Lavin]
Hi, Oklahoma. These are real laws that are actually on the books. Some of them are enforced.

Some of them a lot of them right now are not enforced. But the problem is, if you look at the trajectory, Roe was legal, you know, for 50 years, they got rid of that. They have told us, the Christian Nationalist Group, who is vying for power, have told us what they're going to go after and what they're going to do.

So I think I know where you were going with this. So I'll let you go where I think you were going with the obscenity laws here in Texas.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, and I had to like double check because I knew about how many sex toys you were only allowed to have. But I assumed it was as many as it takes to stack up and equal one Ted Cruz. Apparently, it's a little less than that.

But because he's the biggest dildo in the entire state, I assumed it would be at least that many. Yeah, but it's actually six sex toys in general. You can only have six sex toys.

So a device including a dildo or artificial vagina. So guys, hey, designed or marketed as useful primarily for the stimulation of human genitalia. So anything, only six.

You can only have six. You know, this again, bodily autonomy, I should be able to have an entire wall of sex toys that I can use at my leisure for fun if I want to. You know, and it goes further than that.

You know, we have our oldest daughter is gay. Her and her fiance have been together a long time. They're afraid to get married.

Why are they afraid?

[Tommy Lavin]
They're afraid of Texas. They're afraid of the laws. They're afraid that if they get married, that's going to be on the books here in Texas.

And they could possibly go after that. And why could they go after him? Because in the obscenity statutes?

[Lilin Lavin]
Yes, oral sex, anal sex. Those are those are illegal. And don't you know, not to poke fun, but they've actually gone after people for the sex toy thing.

It was a dumb thing. And it was really to extort people. But yeah, this stuff, it does have merit.

And you look at this case with this poor woman, very different, very different situation entirely. But there they are trying to just have the right to make a very difficult decision for their health and well being. And honestly, for the health and well being of the fetus, because again, non viable misery, not right.

And that that is being taken away from them their right to decide what they feel is best. No one's going to pay her bills. No one's going to take care of that a fetus or the funeral cost or any of the things associated with this situation, the care for the children they have, if she was to pass away, who's going to take that place?

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, the state isn't paying that I guarantee you the state isn't paying all of her medical bills now that she's having to go through because they're extending it, they should have to pay. Yeah. I mean, if they're forcing you to carry a fetus to term that is non viable and is causing you medical issues, the state should absolutely be responsible for all those bills.

Now, they shouldn't be able to do that anyways. But it's it's one of those things where it's like, well, if you're going to force this, then then it should be your bill.

[Lilin Lavin]
It's your bill. And you know, that's another thing. A lot of the states that push these extreme laws that take away your right to decide what you're allowed to do with your own body.

They're not providing extended care for people. They're not ensuring that they get health care, food, homes. They don't care if you end up on the street with a new baby.

They just want you to have to have it.

[Tommy Lavin]
Well, they don't give a shit about the kid after it's born because they I mean, look at Texas, they go after lunches.

[Lilin Lavin]
So they even North Dakota is another one. Why should we have to pay for the school lunch? I believe there's there's been several states.

Hello. Plenty, plenty of hungry children learn well. I don't think so.

[Tommy Lavin]
Does a child that you forced to come into this world need to eat?

[Lilin Lavin]
We I think so. The answer is yes. And here's the best part, folks.

The legislators that are making these laws, they get paid lunches. It's paid out of your tax dollars. Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
So, I mean, again, this this specific subject comes down to, I think, two tenants. One, most of all, is is bodily autonomy.

[Lilin Lavin]
One's body is inviolable and subject to one's own will alone.

[Tommy Lavin]
And I would say the other one is compassion and empathy.

[Lilin Lavin]
I'd say I'd say it's more than two because, you know, the best science.

[Tommy Lavin]
Well, yeah. OK, we can definitely you can honestly probably put every single one in there. Right.

This this at least touches in some way, shape or form.

[Lilin Lavin]
But here it is, Texas. Right. There's exceptions in there.

We absolutely want to protect the people that are pregnant. No way we're trying to do anything to harm them. We just want to protect the you know, what is it they call them?

The unborn baby. Think of the babies. Just think of the think of the poor babies, guys, children.

It's a potential individual that's in the process of being created. It is a unique human organism in the process of gestational development. You follow me online.

You've seen me say it about a million and one different times. This is not a person at this point. It is not an individual.

It's not sentient. You can show me all the papers in the world that you want. Yes, infants that are born early, that are premature.

They have reflexes. They have capability to function with a lot of machine assistance and a lot of help and a lot of surgeries and a lot of intervention. And at the end of the day, they're still not actually individuals.

There are ones that are born in the process still. They have some cognitive capability, but they are not individuals. There's reflexes.

There's a lot of things going on there. So I get it. You are allowed to feel how you want to feel about it.

But for me, nothing takes away from the existing, contributing, cognitive, emotional, living human being that is carrying their pregnancy.

[Tommy Lavin]
And again, I mean, this is the perfect example of pushing an ideology on everybody else. I mean, because what's the argument, really? Right.

And we're not saying religion should get involved in government. Yeah, we're saying some of these things are tenets. But all we're saying is, there should be people should have choice.

That's not pushing a religious ideology choices. Whether I want eggs in the morning or whatever, that's me making a choice that I should be able to do what I want with my body, my choice. It's not really an ideology that because some people will come back and go, oh, you said don't, government and religion shouldn't be involved together.

And then you said something that your religion should be involved in government. No, I'm not saying they should remove religion from government. In other words, remove this ideology that they're forcing on people.

And then what happens naturally, if you remove that force, choice happens naturally.

[Lilin Lavin]
I mean, what I was very clearly saying is that I have this understanding that all individuals have a right to say what happens to their body, and it aligns with what I believe it aligns with my religion, my religion being satanism, because the recognition of oneself being self sovereign to be completely in control of their own life is paramount. And that should be a right for all individuals, regardless of what they believe they should have the right to choose that they have beliefs that don't align with doing this.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, you don't have to be a satanist to have choice, right? You don't have to be a satanist to have the right to to have a bodily autonomy.

[Lilin Lavin]
Well, let me put it like this. If you are a Christian individual who finds themselves pregnant, I don't ever believe anyone should be able to say you shouldn't do that and force them into an abortion. I don't believe that a person that has deeply held beliefs that are anti abortion should ever be put in a position.

However, if they should find themselves in a horrible situation and realize it's something that they actually do need. I don't hold that against them and believe they still have the right to choose, regardless of what their religion might say, whether or not they want to move forward with that.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I mean, I will fight just as hard for a woman. I'm sorry, let me rephrase it. I will fight just as hard for a person who is pregnant and wants to bring the fetus to term.

And let's say has a partner who is trying to force them to get an abortion. No, no, no, you can't do. If you're the person carrying the fetus, it is your choice.

If you want that fetus, that is up to you. And I will fight just as hard solidly for your rights to do that. And I will tell the individual if I was in the vicinity, that is trying to pressure you into doing something you don't want to, to go fuck themselves.

Again, their choice ended when they ejaculated. That was their choice.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. And not to be inconsiderate. Should you, if you're in a committed relationship, have the right to have an opinion, then share it with your partner.

Sure. Yeah, sure. And it should be able to be something they consider.

But that's it. The end decision is ultimately up to the person that has to carry the pregnancy.

[Tommy Lavin]
Exactly. Exactly. I mean, will it maybe end a relationship?

Sure, sure, that is possible. And that that is choices have consequences.

[Lilin Lavin]
I mean, that's, that's not to say that you making a choice is a negative thing at all.

[Tommy Lavin]
And a consequence doesn't have to be a negative thing. Everybody always use consequences like negative consequences is anything that happens after a choice.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
And this was the consequence that doesn't necessarily have to be a negative.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, I think I think the reason I point that out is because a lot of the ultra right, yeah, often say, and I don't mean it like, oh, the conservatives, I don't, when I say ultra right, I mean, the extreme Christians, and these folks often will say, well, you know, pregnancy is a natural consequence of sex, guys. There's ways to prevent that it is not a natural consequence. Children are not consequences.

[Tommy Lavin]
Their choices, children are not consequences or choices. The choice to have sex is not permission to get pregnant, either. You know, I see that one all the time.

Well, you chose to have sex. And by having sex, you gave permission, you gave permission to become pregnant. No, no, sex is fun.

Sex is enjoyable.

[Lilin Lavin]
It's healthy.

[Tommy Lavin]
Sex is healthy. Sex between consenting adults and only consenting adults is a good thing. Sex between consenting adults does not equal has to have children.

[Lilin Lavin]
Nope, nope.

[Tommy Lavin]
And if you get pregnant, and you weren't planning on it, you did the best you could to prevent it, or it's just something that fuck, even if you didn't do the best you could, well, hell, even if you say you fucking threw caution to the wind and said, Oh, fuck it, we're gonna have some badass sex tonight, whatever the fuck happens, happens. You still have the choice.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, even if you intended, even if you intended to become pregnant, and then something changed, whatever that something is, you have the right to say, you know, actually, this, this isn't right for me.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I mean, you could have had a, let's say you're in a marriage situation. I mean, let's just put it as, as, as far out there as possible. In a situation like this, you are happily married couple, 15 years, been wanting a family the whole time, you get pregnant, finally, you change your mind, that's okay.

And that's your right. And if your partner has a problem with that, while you discuss it, and all of that sort of things, but your partner has no right to say, Well, no, we've been married for 15 years, and we discussed this, and you agreed to this? Well, guess what, I fucking changed my mind.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. And again, same thing, you can turn that scenario on its head. And you can say, you know, they said, I never want to do that.

And then it happened anyway. And then the pregnant individual says, Well, I want to keep it, they have the right to say that, and they have the right to follow through that maybe they don't stay with that person.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, maybe maybe the consequences is a divorce. You know what?

[Lilin Lavin]
And okay, good riddance.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I'd almost say, Well, you're probably better off with some with doing that, then with staying with somebody who does not respect your rights.

[Lilin Lavin]
Right. And I don't mean to be insensitive. Again, that's not it is easier said than done to have your life upended in that way.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I was just trying to put the most extreme sort of out there so that people can see no matter what the person who becomes pregnant, the that is the person who makes the ultimate choice at the end of the day.

[Lilin Lavin]
And like in this situation with Kate Cox, she did want this pregnancy, her and her partner made this choice consciously. And even though you have the best of intentions, and you have all the hopes in the world about what's going to happen in this scenario, you cannot control everything. And she found herself in the worst possible situation was not only having to mourn this loss, like you're already because she knows now she has to do this publicly.

Now she has to beg and grovel for basic health care to be able to make a decision about what she should be able to do.

[Tommy Lavin]
I can't believe I mean, 50 years after Roe, and we are all the way back to begging and groveling for a woman. I'm sorry, a person is trying to give this specific example. For a woman right now, who is dealing with an non viable fetus, that is doing damage to her both psychologically and physically.

[Lilin Lavin]
Well, and you gotta think her her kids, and probably the rest of her family, her partner is aware the the pressure that these individuals must be getting the the threats that they have to be getting.

[Tommy Lavin]
Oh my gosh, I I see the shit said about them online. And it's just I mean, social media is a shit show.

[Lilin Lavin]
Anyways, it's and it's the worst of the worst people. Sometimes I've met wonderful, the best of the best. But there's also this just underlying current of horrible, evil trolls.

And some of them are, yes, actual human beings that think this way and speak this way publicly on purpose. These are not just keyboard warriors. And I guarantee you, this poor family is getting letters.

And, you know, here we are getting towards the holiday can enjoy the holiday can't sit and just have peace with their family can't even be it's just such a vile situation to put someone in.

[Tommy Lavin]
And then you have the legislators. Obviously, they're not just keyboard warriors, because they're actually bringing them to court there. I mean, to the fact that she had to even go before a judge to grovel, grovel and ask for this and that the judge not only had to put her name on there, but her husband to protect him because in Texas, we have the law where you well, you can sue anybody that's helping.

So naturally, the people would have sued her husband.

[Lilin Lavin]
And she went through with the doctor now, and the doctor now, and any facility and any person because, you know, this is not something that one person does alone. You have a team, the whole team is at risk. So there are plenty of people who want to keep their job.

You have plenty of people that do not want to go to jail. That is the point. That is the point.

It's like you have people also building invisible barriers, Texas, again, they have the tattletale law up in the freaking tippy top of Texas, because New Mexico has abortion, Colorado has abortion, and people go there from Texas to get that abortion. And guess what? Now a lot of these lovely little border communities have decided to get on board and say we'll tattle and civilly pursue someone if we believe now it's again, not the pregnant individual.

It's the people transporting the pregnant individual. It's the people that helped to pay for the pregnant individual to make that trip. It's all this crap that they're gonna suppose I don't know how they're gonna know.

Let's find out. I'm going to go up there and we could stop by a couple gas stations on the way to New Mexico and see exactly how far they want to push it. Just so I can understand what the hell they think they're doing.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, it could be like, are you still feeling okay after that McDonald's? I mean, I know you've been getting sick with this pregnancy and stuff like that. Well, it'll be over with soon.

Yeah, don't worry, it'll be over. And then we can see if they try and sue me or something like that.

[Lilin Lavin]
I mean, but that's where we're at. How far are they really willing to go? And isn't just an invisible barrier, folks?

Is it connected? Isn't it connected? I'm not going conspiracy here.

But they also have a physical freaking border. Hello, Greg Abbott, we're talking about you, that they put an actual border wall between the state of Texas and the state of New Mexico.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, it's a couple miles of like barbed wire and razor wire and shit like that. It actually looks pretty shitty. Yes, he still put a barrier between me.

Yeah, probably put a barrier between Texas and parts of New Mexico. Now, his excuse was immigrants, you know, and that that was the excuse that which that's a whole other episode. Yeah, that's a totally different episode.

But you damn well know, this was part of that as well. Because a lot of people from Texas are going to New Mexico. Thank you TST for abortion.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, I'll take a moment to thank Samuel Leto's mom's satanic abortion clinic, brought to you by the wonderful Judge Alito, who decided to go ahead and rule against continuing to allow individuals their rights and freedoms. So Sam sack, thank you for being there and providing abortion care to individuals everywhere.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I can.

I know we talked about a lot in this at night. It's it's a really heated topic.

[Lilin Lavin]
It's hard not to be mad.

[Tommy Lavin]
And we so hard.

[Lilin Lavin]
We talked about having different conversations. And I just could not get away from just the absolute indignation I have to be an individual who lives here who could have to need certain care that they've the doctors I may need to have daughters in a state where they may need to have that kind of care to have individuals in my life that I love that are dealing with pregnancy and could need to have an emergency intervention. What happens to them?

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah.

[Lilin Lavin]
What happens to the 1000s of women here that can't take off work that can't drive to another state that are working multiple jobs just to make ends meet? Who cares about them?

[Tommy Lavin]
And again, you know, kind of going back to the Well, I have a penis so I can't get pregnant. Well, guess what, if you have daughters that you care about, if you have a partner that can get pregnant, if you have anyone in your circle of loved ones that can get pregnant, guess what? This does affect you.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. And look at the writing on the wall. I say this stuff enough, and it keeps happening.

And I'm not saying it's an absolute birth control, they talk about it. IDF folks, they talk about it surrogacy, they're talking about it, anything that involves a fertilized egg, or an embryo. And there's 1000s of these stored away for individuals for various different reasons.

They want to essentially give these things personhood. And then it opens up a whole litany of what rights do you even have over these, these fertilized eggs that you've stored away? You know, what happens in your future?

What about the fact that for this to even be successful, you have to sometimes implant multiple embryos, and then you have to selectively remove some for your own health and safety. I mean, there is a whole host of things and people's lives that are going to be affected. And again, when you come down to it, they're attacking bodily autonomy, they're telling you what you can do with your own body.

And if you think it only is limited to female reproductive rights, you're wrong. It has to do with all of our rights. It has to do with, again, transgender individuals being able to have a say over how their body is represented.

It has to do with anything, anything.

[Tommy Lavin]
And fellas, I think you're going where I'll let you go.

[Lilin Lavin]
Because I mean, if you if you leave, I believe, again, I'll need a fact checker, because I don't live in Russia. But I do know someone who does. And they said they can't even get a vasectomy until a certain age.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah.

[Lilin Lavin]
So I mean, guys out there get it sometimes because they don't even want to deal with the risk of it. Imagine now you're in a country that is so devoutly worshipping fertility to the point that you can't say no, you can't say no, you can't get a vasectomy.

[Tommy Lavin]
I mean, because again, this can start to encroach into the cisgender male role. And you know, in the fact of, oh, well, we're going to make vasectomies illegal now, you know, you just don't know where these crazies are going to end.

[Lilin Lavin]
No, and it's not just Texas, all of the United States is at risk. And you know, a lot of things are happening. And we're all holding our breath for the upcoming election, because there's a lot of nasty things that could come out of that.

But don't think it stops there.

[Tommy Lavin]
No, and I where I was going to go with it was, you know, kind of going back to some of these laws that are on Texas books. Well, if you enjoy oral sex, whether you're a guy or a girl, or yeah, I mean, it's not farfetched. It really isn't because they've talked to I've seen some of these crazy, whacked out people that are running for office.

And they talk about going after other types of sex. You know, I mean, they're kind of like, unless it's missionary.

[Lilin Lavin]
And I mean, seriously, it's again, you know, I'm sorry, I'm going to keep talking about it. Because we live in Texas on the books right now, still right now, the ability to have anal sex is technically questionable. It is still technically illegal.

Are they going after it? Not right now.

[Tommy Lavin]
Not right now. But they did. You know, I was seeing previews and fuck, I forgot.

I'm gonna look this up. There is a there is a series on Showtime in Paramount that I really want to watch because they go over the what was it the lavender law? And most people What the fuck's the lavender law?

Yeah, I've never heard of this. And it was a point in time not too far away from where we're now. It started in the 1940s and 50s.

And it was specifically targeting homosexuals in government positions, and that included military and things like that. And that didn't just end in that that went all the way into the 70s. And a little bit, I believe, even into the 80s.

Now this particular, it's called fellow travelers. And it's it's on Showtime. I it's on our list, definitely need to watch it.

But I saw a really good, it wasn't just a preview, they were talking about it on a news show, they had the actors on there. And the actors were telling it, you know, we're kind of giving a, by the way, you all have heard of all these other things. Has anybody heard of the lavender law?

And everybody kind of looked around and was like that? What the fuck is lavender law? And then they kind of described it.

And it's like, holy shit that and I think back to when I was a kid in the 80s. And I'm like, yeah, I actually kind of remember this shit.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. Well, I mean, I need you to understand, at least in Texas, the sodomy law isn't like this thing that's been in since the 50s. We're talking 1973.

Okay, the sodomy law was put in place, it criminalizes homosexual conduct, it will affect other individuals, right? Because let's be honest, a lot of people like to have oral sex or anal sex that aren't homosexual, believe it or not.

[Tommy Lavin]
But they call those homosexual, homosexual acts. So even if you are the straightest cisgender guy out there, and you just enjoy blowjobs, yeah, they label you as having homosexual sex.

[Lilin Lavin]
Now, constitutionally, these are just not enforceable. They are completely unenforceable, because they're deemed unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court in 2003. But guys, back to where we are right now with Kate Cox.

This was something that was protected too. And then you look at that. So just this year, someone actually went out, it was Benton Jones, who by the way, is a black gay Democrat from Dallas.

And Jones is the state's first openly HIV positive lawmaker, not because they're gay. That is not the way that works. I'm just going to get that out there right now.

But it's so rare to have an individual who is not only gay, and not only HIV positive, this individual is proudly trying to speak up to stop discriminating against people just to get it off the books. It's not enforceable. So why do we even need it?

And I agree. So they went out there and they spearheaded this bill. It's been 50 years, 50 years it sits there for what purpose?

And then, you know, it's, like I said, 2003 was, it's inert. So if it's really something that we know we can't enforce, why do we still have it?

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, and maybe it was the lavender scare or the purple. It was something like that. And I believe, and I could be wrong here, but I believe that's even where they kind of pulled the color purple into some of the symbology.

[Lilin Lavin]
So that goes back to the McCarthyism. So the lavender scare was where communists and homosexuals had peculiar mental twists. So that's what the lavender scare is.

So that's, that was something that was, it was essentially a rhetoric that was intentionally put out there to go after and hunt down LGBTQ plus federal employees.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, federal employees. That's what I was talking about that they started. And again, communism, they kind of put it in that whole vein of communism, the same way they got God in the pledge and all of that sort of shit.

They went and they went after any federal employee. And again, that went as far as including the military, which is when I remember Don't Ask, Don't Tell coming in. Because before then, you could actually be arrested if you were found to be homosexual and in the military.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, well, it was like in 1969, the color came to symbolize empowerment, and lavender sashes and armbands were distributed to a crowd of hundreds in a gay power march. And this was the 1969 Washington Square Park to Stonewall Inn in New York to commemorate the Stonewall riot. So lavender has a very deep association with the power in the community and things like that.

So but yes, it's the lavender scare. Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
And so I know we kind of went, you might think, well, fuck, we started with Kate Cox. And now we're talking about the lavender scare. They're all related.

It's all related, because it all has to do with bodily autonomy. And your choice. How you live your life.

[Lilin Lavin]
You know, I have to tell you, as an individual of reproductive capability, that you never feel like less of a human being than when you're boiled down to your basic biological capabilities and told you, only you capable of these things are not deemed worthy enough to decide for yourself.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, you're you're basically, I mean, the way that I read some of these laws that they're trying to push through, it's they're looking at women like livestock.

[Lilin Lavin]
But anyone that has the ability to reproduce is at risk of being a second class citizen in their own country, where your rights literally change from state to state.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah.

[Lilin Lavin]
And it's hard to keep up with. And as a parent, I would be terrified because if your kid goes to one of those states for college, well, if they find themselves in a certain situation, that could be an incredibly horrible thing. And they're going after people more and more.

They're trying to make more and more things around this. They are trying to push the ability to create personhood around an embryo. And let's be very honest.

They keep saying science says that it is a living human being at fertilization. Science does not agree when life begins. Science agrees that life does, in a way, start.

It agrees that it is a unique human organism that is now different DNA. It's its own organism that's trying to develop, it's trying to develop into a human individual. That process isn't guaranteed.

That process isn't something that will absolutely ultimately end in a living human individual. And that's what we have to keep in mind. We're trying to take away the rights and freedoms of living human individuals that are currently contributing to lives, work, families.

Everyone talks about this potential being that could one day become a doctor or a lawyer or create the next... What about the individual that's pregnant?

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, the one that's hosting it. Because that's basically...

[Lilin Lavin]
Or, you know, you look at the reality here. There's young people that find themselves in situations where they've been, you know, brutalized or abused and they end up pregnant. What about that child?

You care about all children. What about that child? What about the person that finds themselves in need of care and they can't get it?

[Tommy Lavin]
They can't find a doctor because what's happening in a lot of these states, the doctors are leaving. At least the OBGYN doctors, anybody, any doctor who might... Oh, I guess our dog has the opinion on it.

Who might actually have to treat a pregnant individual. You know, there are doctors that are leaving states because they don't want the risk. I mean, if I was a doctor, do I want the risk that I could possibly go to jail for the rest of my life because, oh, you know, a person was miscarrying and I helped save their life?

That's fucked up beyond all belief.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, you'll lose your... You could lose your livelihood. You went to school for this.

You've spent a lifetime developing skills. You've worked in a practice. You have other people at risk, you know, your team.

You have all these people that provide care. It's not just the doctors that they'll go after. It's the nurses.

It's anybody that touches the individual that ends up needing this care.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, the person that gave them their initial IV when they came in. The person that checked them in and did the paperwork.

[Lilin Lavin]
Any contribution. Anything.

[Tommy Lavin]
That Uber driver that gave him a ride to the fucking hospital.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, all of these people are at risk for what? Other people's opinion on what you should be able to do with your body. And poor Kate is in the middle of this horrific, you know, situation.

And they are, in my opinion, a hero. And they're right out there with the whole Roe v. Wade.

That individual, they didn't get the help they needed in time to actually make a difference in their life. And they were forced to continue a pregnancy that was, you know, conceived in rape. And albeit, you know, you each have that decision whether or not you wanted to do that.

And hopefully you get counseling regardless of which decision you make. But that is the wrong thing to force a person to have to do. It should never be anybody else's choice but yours.

So yeah. Okay. So heavy subject.

The fact of the matter is.

[Tommy Lavin]
Very, very heavy. There isn't a whole lot of laughing in this one. This is a lot of raw emotion here.

And, you know, again, I'm the father of daughters. And I just look and I'm like, holy shit. What happens if one of my daughters gets pregnant and goes through this same thing?

[Lilin Lavin]
Right. What if they find themselves after deciding that they want to have a child with a child that is going to potentially be, you know, facing the same kind of consequences? They have a fetus that's in some kind of peril and is not viable.

What happens?

[Tommy Lavin]
And no, the fix to this isn't. Okay. Well, Tommy.

[Lilin Lavin]
Well, your daughter should know better than to have sex. Well, not.

[Tommy Lavin]
I wasn't going to go there. But the fix isn't. No, Tommy.

Okay. As y'all talked about, yes, Kate Cox should. And anybody in that position should go ahead and be able to give treatment.

But we still believe abortion should be illegal for everybody else. No, no, no, no, no. That is not absolutely not what we're saying here.

What we are saying is this should be a woman's choice between her and her doctor. And anybody else can butt the fuck out of that decision because it has nothing. You even if you were the sperm donor, your choice, you had a choice until you ejaculated.

At that point, your choice ended. Get it through your skull. So that's where I'm going with it.

[Lilin Lavin]
So what rights and choices do you have? Well, you have the right and ability still to vote. You have the ability to affect change.

You have the ability to write to your legislators. You have the ability to stand outside of they've listed out the hospitals that are going to be affected by Ken Paxson's giant mantrum.

[Tommy Lavin]
Well, the legislators aren't listening. I mean, people can write to him. I mean, they've seen they've they've lost vote after vote after vote after vote.

It is very clear where America stands on this. They're just not listening because their ideology, they care more about their ideology and their radical Christian.

[Lilin Lavin]
But they've made it clear what hospitals they've gone after.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yes.

[Lilin Lavin]
Send them thank yous.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yes, yes.

[Lilin Lavin]
Definitely send the hospital saying send the doctor thank yous because I guarantee they're getting other notes. So tell people you appreciate them being willing to protect and defend the individual that they're there to protect and defend. And, you know, the lawyer that's also getting tons of hate mail.

These people are putting themselves in an incredibly dangerous, perilous position to do the right thing. And it shouldn't be this. So not only can you vote, not only can you share support, not only can you organize and stand together and demand change because we have the right to do that in this country right now.

So take that opportunity to voice your opinions, to show support, to help register voters. Be like the evil Taylor Swift. Go out there and go forth and register voters.

Encourage people. Taylor Swift, the spawn of Satan.

[Tommy Lavin]
Oh, my God. This woman who's promiscuous and not married and telling other people to vote.

[Lilin Lavin]
Oh, my God. But as goofy as it is, they're afraid of people that are strong like that. And so, you know what?

They want to be afraid. Let's give them something to be afraid of. Get out there and use that voice.

Use those abilities that you have. You know, make ride shares, make plans, get together. The vote's just around the corner.

I don't care how you vote. I just want you to remember the people that you're affecting with your vote. And I want you to stand up proudly and do something with it that's going to make a difference for your life and the life of your neighbors and your family and your friends that will matter.

[Tommy Lavin]
And if you're busy as hell and you can't do like any of those things, the one most important thing that Lillian said to do, vote. Vote, vote, vote. Because as we said at the beginning, Texas right now is standing up waving the big red flags.

This is what you can expect. So this is what you want. And again, they're not all the way there in Texas.

They still got a long ways to go and they are heading in that way.

[Lilin Lavin]
Y'all haven't read Project 2025. We did a brief recap of it. There's a whole lot we didn't even touch.

And they're going after all manner of folks. You want to have a family? Well, you better have a nuclear family.

The nuclear family that they want is the man, the woman, and the child, not the surrogate child, not the I got divorced and started a new family child. They want you and the person who created the kid together, regardless of how abusive or dangerous or horrifying it might have been. So think about the future you're creating because you are drafting the blueprint for our future.

Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
All right. With that one, I think we should probably.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. I got to pull it back. Pull it back.

[Tommy Lavin]
Pull it back a little bit.

[Lilin Lavin]
Take a deep breath.

[Tommy Lavin]
Thank everybody that made it all the way through this. Pretty raw.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. Everybody like some grounding exercise. Close your eyes.

You know, a couple of deep breaths.

[Tommy Lavin]
Take some deep breaths in and out. If you enjoy sex, go have sex.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. Enjoy. Enjoy those freedoms, friends.

[Tommy Lavin]
If you're asexual, don't feel compelled.

[Lilin Lavin]
Go ahead and make yourself a nice cup of coffee or some tea. Grab a book. Hang out with chocolate cake.

[Tommy Lavin]
Something. Do something satisfying for yourself. Do something for yourself.

And with that, I'm going to bid you. Hail Satan. Hail Satan, folks.