Ep.35: Echoes of Navalny - A Satanic Perspective on Defiance and Freedom

# Satanists Nextdoor
# Ep.35: Echoes of Navalny - A Satanic Perspective on Defiance and Freedom

[Lilin Lavin]
Welcome, dear listeners, to Satanist Next Door. We're your hosts, Lilin Lavin and Tommy Lavin. Whether you're an open-minded curious onlooker or a fellow Satanist seeking camaraderie, our goal is to share our personal experiences and delve into the intricate tapestry of Satanism in our daily lives, occasionally inviting other guests to share their unique perspectives, leaving no pentagram unturned.

We'll explore how our beliefs shape our views on society, dive into struggles and triumphs we've encountered, and reveal the humanity that unites us all. So grab your favorite chalice and join us on this captivating journey. Satanist Next Door is ready to peel back the curtain and offer you a glimpse into our world, one captivating episode at a time.

[Tommy Lavin]
Hello and welcome to another episode of Satanist Next Door. Today we are going to be talking about the subject of Alexei Navalny, given that he was just killed. And yeah, kind of take it from there, how that, you know, kind of relates and just our thoughts on it.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, I think, you know, to put a kind of context around it, we often talk about things that relate to our lives and why they're important to us as Satanists, because Satanism is, you know, a lens through which we see a lot of the world. It's not all we are, it's not everything we are, but it is a very large part of who we are. And I think when you look at who Navalny was, and what he was trying to accomplish, it becomes apparent that there is a connection.

And so I had, we sat together and we had watched Navalny, which is a great documentary, I very much recommend it to people.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, if you haven't seen it yet, it's on Max, or used to be HBO, whatever streaming service you still have. So it's on Max, the Max streaming service.

[Lilin Lavin]
We had watched it when he was alive.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, a couple, like a year or two ago.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, when he had first come out. So we had watched it then. And I did feel a lot of that electric personality of who he was come through.

And though we then just watched it again, as I thought about what I wanted to discuss and what we were kind of trying to go for here. And that was kind of what led us to have this, this conversation.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I think the other thing to keep in mind, too, is, you know, a lot of times, as we talk about Satanism and Satanists, we think of Satanism as a lot of people think of Satanism as us. But yes, Satanists are everywhere in the world. You know, I mean, so there's Satanist in Russia.

Yeah, there's Satanists in many other countries. And a lot of them, even though we have, you know, a satanic panic growing over here, a lot of them have had to live under the shroud of holy fuck, if I get caught, you know, things could be really bad.

[Lilin Lavin]
Oppression in places like Russia, I think it's important. It has been ongoing generationally. And I think, you know, one of the things about Navalny that struck people is it was this breath of, it was this breath of air that they were afraid to actually breathe.

It was this light that they dared to actually glimpse at from behind a long, long dark tunnel that they felt was just the way life had to be. And my major, what I found myself asking, what is it about this man that struck me so deeply? What does he want?

What did he do? What was it that he was fighting for? And why is this so pertinent to me?

And, you know, as I watched it, it was his indomitable spirit that inspired me. I looked at the things that were happening here in America and in so many places around the world, and I knew in what he was trying to accomplish that he was right. He spoke for all of the free world.

He captured the spirit of who we are and the majority of us are. We truly just want the freedom to live our lives. And I wrote that as I was listening and watching today.

And I asked myself, well, how does any of this relate to Satanism? You know, if I'm going to have a conversation about it, what is the relation? Alexei Navalny was not a Satanist.

He did not in any way represent religion in what he was trying to accomplish. He has no connection whatsoever. But I'm looking at this from the perspective of my Satanism, my experience as an individual and how it connects.

And so I'm going to kind of go back to what it is that it relates to in relation to the tenants, because that's the way we often will conceptualize something and understand how, you know, it relates. So let's start with the first one. Navalny's fight against corruption and for political reform in Russia can be seen as a form of compassion for his fellow citizens striving to create a more just and equitable society.

The struggle for justice, something that Navalny embodied through his anti-corruption efforts and his personal sacrifices in the face of legal and physical attacks. Navalny, in the third tenant, advocated for personal freedom and rights. He fought for political freedom and for transparency.

Navalny, in relation to the fourth tenant, pushed for a more open and free society where descending views against the government can be expressed without fear of repression. Navalny focused on an evidence-based approach to expose corruption and he relied on factual information in order to challenge the status quo. He saw the world as it was and he challenged it.

The sixth tenant recognizes human fallibility. Now, he was not a perfect person. There are definitely things that he did in the process of his life and in this journey that people could say they were issue with.

But in the sixth tenant, we recognize the human fallibility and the importance of acknowledging when one is wrong while more personal in scope. This tenant's emphasis on humility and learning can be tangentially related to Navalny's broader mission on holding those in power accountable for their mistakes and their corruption. Looking at this as a whole, we can see that the guiding ideals designed to inspire nobility and action shows a broad alignment with Navalny's efforts to inspire change and address injustices in Russian society.

And one could argue even further than that around the world, but he was focused on Russia in specific. While Alexei Navalny's activism wasn't in any way religiously motivated or connected to Satanism, certain principles he stands for, such as justice, the importance of evidence and reason in public discourse, and the defense of personal freedoms, show a philosophical overlap with the tenants we as Satanists value, align with, and strive to embody. Navalny's focus on political and social reform and not religious or spiritual matters, but his actions absolutely embody the values that we as Satanists fight to also uphold, especially in terms of advocating for justice, transparency, and challenging authority through reason, argument, and evidence.

And so many gave so much. Alexei Navalny gave his life for a dream of a free Russia. Yulia, his wife, gave up her freedom, and from that moment on, she was always going to be known.

She gave up her heart, her passion, her husband, the man she loved for the country he dreamed of giving true freedom. Dasha, his daughter, and she described this herself from the age of 13, she lived with the ever-present fear that her father would be taken from her forever. He missed out on her high school graduation because he was falsely imprisoned, not for the first time, and he was consistently removed from her life.

And yes, you could argue that he chose that, but she, much like her father, said it was worth it. It was worth every moment, because the thing he fought for was not just for him, it was for her, it was for everyone to have those freedoms. And then Zakhar, and I apologize, I said his name wrong, he sacrificed his childhood.

He's very much the same age as one of my own children. And imagining just your life, knowing that your dad, what he's going through, what you're going through, what you're missing, the holes in your life. And I think, you know, as I hear what people from Russia are sharing, that loss of a stable parental figure is something that they are all feeling.

You know, yesterday on the news, one of the people that were speaking about him said, you know, he was and is this larger-than-life figure, almost superhuman, something that seemed supernatural. You know, they tried to kill him and... Pete And failed.

[Tommy Lavin]
Jared And failed.

[Lilin Lavin]
Pete Yeah, and the first time. Jared And, you know, they said, he had to be our Washington. He had to be that person for us that broke through this cycle, that made a change, that we could finally begin to move forward as a people.

And so, you know, you look at that, and what Putin did in killing him, I think truly, he only made Navalny stronger, because that heartbeat that he no longer has is now the heartbeat of an entire society.

[Tommy Lavin]
Pete Yeah, in a sense. I mean, you know, I don't know if this is entirely accurate right now, but, you know, he could have made him a martyr. You know, I don't know how the Russian people feel about him.

Jared I don't pretend to. Pete You know, and I don't pretend to, but there is sort of that chance there that, you know, and it was interesting when we were watching it, they were so afraid to even say his name. Jared Oh, yeah.

Pete You know, Putin wouldn't say his name, the Kremlin channels, they wouldn't say his name. They would say, the man in the hospital in Berlin. Jared He, him, that individual.

That individual, the leftist, or liberal, whatever, you know, and it's weird, it's the same talking points you hear from the MAGA and Christian.

[Lilin Lavin]
Pete Agitprop terms used here. And keep in mind that Russia, much like Germany before, carried on the same presence of like, holding this false news, this misinformation. A lot of things we're dealing with now has been greatly inspired by the agitprop that Russia so deeply values as a way to control people.

And it has become a very dangerous weapon here in our own country. So go ahead.

[Tommy Lavin]
Jared No, I was just gonna say, you know, I saw what he was trying to accomplish in Russia, and how many people were behind him, backing him, even if they had to do that in silence. And yet, I see how there is a conservative movement in America that is trying to run towards Putin and authoritarian type, you know, government, they are not shy saying that's what they want to change America into either a theocracy or an autocracy that is Christian based or something like that. And and that's like, holy shit.

I mean, you know, so it was

[Lilin Lavin]
fucker Carlson, when he went to hang out in Russia with his big daddy, Putin, made sure to let people know how much better he thought things were, even though as he went shopping for all of these things, which he spent, I believe he said 200 US dollars on, he's not taking into account the very real fact that people there do not make that amount of money to shop in that way on a routine basis. This is a luxurious shopping trip that he took.

He is trying to equate what living here and living there are somehow the same thing. And they are in no way, although they're working very hard to make it a reality here. And in their banning LGBTQ individuals from even having any kind of LGBTQ clothing, or coloring books, same sort of crap you see here, you know, they're they're told they can't, there's people today, and there will be for I believe, many days, and I hope they recognize the power and what they're doing.

You know, I support what they're doing. They can't even mourn publicly Alexei's death without threat of jail. I believe a one person was sentenced to 15 days in jail, which sounds like nothing, right.

But every day for a Russian individual that they cannot work is that much closer to having absolutely nothing as to losing everything. It's, you know, the treatment of jail, it is not the same thing you experience here in the United States.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, yeah, I mean, and so it just kind of baffles me when I when I watch and I see people that are embracing, you know, authoritarian extremism backwards to something like that. And yet you see somebody that, like him, that that was, was really, for whatever faults he had, was was trying to move Russia into a into a more free, democratic, less corrupt, more democratic environment. And again, for that, they tried to kill him once messed up, you know, and and and he could have stayed in exile.

And you and I kind of had some discussion back and forth about that, which I'll kind of leave that discussion on the side, you know, but he could have stayed in exile, but he didn't, you know, he went back. And I think that just shows how much Russia meant to him.

[Lilin Lavin]
I think it speaks to what the average Russian person and I think it's true here also in America, their country is their heart. They truly believe in everything that they have worked for what they have the freedoms that they believe, you know, every individual should have just to live their life. And I believe from all the friends that I've had from Russia, from all the people I know, they are very proud people.

And with reason, they're very hard working. They're very intelligent. They're very driven people.

But they're highly oppressed generationally. And even though they've lived through this deep oppression, they've maintained throughout a large part of the society, this this hope, these dreams, this dream of a free tomorrow.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. And, you know, again, I look at the fight as a fight against Putin, because everything that Putin has been doing, you know, you look at Ukraine, that's that's Putin. Yeah, that's Putin pushing that.

And I'm, you never know what another individual would have done. True. But I don't think there would be the same situation.

If Putin wasn't there.

[Lilin Lavin]
Oh, I know. I don't think he'll stop at Ukraine. I don't think anyone with a rational mind sees that as the truth.

When you hear it over and over. He just wants to take back what's his think about what the USSR encompassed. Okay, that that's a very large area and will affect billions of people's lives.

I'm not just talking the people whose land he wants to take, whose livelihoods he wants to destroy, whose families he wants to uproot and whose lives he will inevitably want to end. But the greater the greater society and what that does and what he's done to our country, and the constant interference, even when, you know, Trump ran initially, and he said, you know, hey, Russia, if you're listening, if you've got the emails, yeah. So I mean, this has been embroiled in our political life for a long time.

But it wasn't really until that moment when a lot of society goes, oh, they're much more involved than we realized. And, you know, and that's not uncommon with great powers. But another thing, you know, when you think about Navalny, at one point, he was on his way to court.

And I feel like he summed up what a truly living means. You know, he quoted Rick and Morty, which is a fun show. But he said to live is to risk it all.

Otherwise, you're just an inert chunk of randomly assembled molecules drifting wherever the universe blows you. And I think, you know, he's saying you have to stand for something. We're all here.

If you want to make life meaningful, you have to do something and mean it.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I really thought it was important that in the documentary, at the end, they grabbed the, you know, they kind of asked him for a statement of what he would want to leave what message he would want to leave behind to Russians, if he was jailed or killed. And I noticed in that I look for little subtle things sometimes when I'm watching people. And he said, he answered back and he answered back with a when they kill me was was is it?

Yeah. So I mean, he knew what he was going back to. But I think you capture I did.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. And it was he was asked twice. He was asked once, you know, and then he was asked in Russian, you know, would you would you explain it?

So in English, he said, my message for the situation when I am killed is simple. Don't don't give up. He goes on to say in Russian, obviously, I'm not a proficient Russian speaker.

So I will use the translation. Listen, I've got something very obvious to tell you, you're not allowed to give up. If they decide to kill me, it means that we are incredibly strong.

We need to utilize this power to not give up to remember we are a huge power that is being oppressed by these bad dudes. And I love that because it's very Navalny. He always found a way to be funny, even in the difficult times.

And we don't realize how strong we actually are. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing. So be so don't be inactive.

And I'm inclined to agree with him. We don't I don't feel we don't realize how strong we actually are as a people when we work together, even when we don't always agree. And it's well past time we take a good look and discover that strength, the strength that Alexei Navalny saw in all of us.

And I think that's what inspired me to have this conversation, because I think we are so fragmented as a society that we pop pop each other into these little boxes, and we place little labels on one another. And we're failing to see that all the while, we're giving up everything that allows us to have freedom, the freedom that we love, even to disagree with one another, even to try and tell people how they think people should live, which I don't agree with. But those are freedoms.

And even those with the most extreme views don't seem to realize that there's an extreme view even further than that, that will be imposed upon them. And so if we don't work together to stop everyone from trying to impose these things from taking away their freedoms to have bodily autonomy to have the right to free speech to all these things we value are very much on the line. And it's not so farfetched, because we've talked about it before, that you know what it is to live in Russia, what it is to live in a lot of these authoritarian places could very much be what it is to live in America.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I mean, 2024 could could set the tone for that. I also saw something in in there that I don't know if I could have could have done, you know, the way when he was getting the evidence to, you know, kind of show to prove that there was an assassination attempt on him, you know, they were calling these different military people in and scientists and at first he tried to direct, you know, approach and he got hung up on a bunch of times. But then he he did more of a, I'm this person, you know, kind of made it seem like he was an official, and he needed to get a report and he got the scientist to basically confess to everything that happened, you know, as if he was giving the report, it shouldn't have gone down like this, he was supposed to die, there were circumstances that we didn't come up with.

And when they hung up with him, they looked and they said, he's dead, you know, he'll be he'll be killed. And then he said, should we try and get him out? It's only the humanitarian thing.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, I believe is actually the gentleman with him.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. And he agreed. And I was like, I thought to myself, I was like, I don't think I could try and rescue somebody that just tried to kill me.

But that's, that's me, like, personally. And, and that just showed, you know, the difference, you could, yeah, you I know, you would, you know, you

[Lilin Lavin]
would you have that empathy that because in reality, right, you know, it's not gonna just be all what it could, it could be a quick thing, you know, it could, but the reality is, this was a rather large fuck up on behalf of this individual who did speak and from what I know, to this day, they've never been able to locate them. And they will never, unless you know, they decide to just be funny about it. And he did somehow not get killed, or they find a duplicate person.

But um, you know, he knows what it will be. He knew. Yeah, he knew going back into Russia, which he deeply felt compelled to do.

He saw the weight of it on his face. He knew what he was going into. Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
And that was going to a gulag. You know, he knew eventually he would he would probably be killed, but they didn't do it right off. They they sent him to a couple gulags first.

I know he survived a hunger strike that he he put on for about 20 days or something like that at the very beginning.

[Lilin Lavin]
But then eventually they and it was it was crystal girls from Bellingcat, who said, you know, we should we should connect with him and give him the opportunity to you know, it's a humanitarian thing. Yeah, to try and get him out. Yeah.

And I believe, you know, Yulia and and Navalny all agreed. Yeah, he's he's dead otherwise. And honestly, once those calls were already going out, and other people have been contacted, it was it was only a matter of time.

[Tommy Lavin]
The I imagine it was a matter of minutes, you know, minutes, hours, I don't know, I'm presuming but they were they were never able to contact him again or find him. So but but my point was, even though this person attempted to kill him, he was he was still thinking we should get this person out. It's a humanitarian thing to do, which I was just kind of like, wow, I don't think I could do that.

[Lilin Lavin]
Wow. And you know, is that truly how he felt? Was it something you felt compelled to say?

I don't know. And I won't pretend to know. But I do feel when you look at the sum total of all he tried to do and what he risked, and eventually lost in the process of doing it, it was who he was.

He wanted a better life for his children, he wanted a better life for his country. And I think the parallels here are we, we are fighting for the same thing here in our own country. And in many countries around the world, there's this overwhelming sentiment to lean towards the darker side of, you know, our humanity, the very negative impulses that create these situations, and make us become nationalists that make us fear people who are different, that make us, you know, stick within our very small, narrow view of what is okay in the world, and miss out on the experience of being human.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I mean, the whole nationalist isolationist thing, I, it doesn't make sense. And this, we're a global economy, we're a global world. I mean, our economy, our goods, everything, this is, you know, we live in a global world now, when you become an isolationist, you cut off so much of that, and it makes it less safe.

But that's, that's a different story. That's a different topic. There was another part in there that, you know, because like you said, he kind of, even at his rallies, even while he was talking and stuff like that, he would sort of try and make light of that situation that people use to cope with things.

Yeah, the dark humor that we all used to cope with things. And, and at one of his, at one of his rallies, you know, he was calling, he was calling Putin a liar. And the crowd was cheering it back, you know, they were, they were saying it back.

And then at the end, and you could see people, and there was this guy on camera, and he's smiling, he's laughing. And he's like, yeah, liar. And then at the end, he kind of jokes, and he says, it's, you know, up, Putin can see it now.

And you could see the second that that person realized, holy shit, I'm on camera. And I said that, because their face completely changed. It was, it was fear.

[Lilin Lavin]
But that's what it is to live under the constant state of oppression. And to see that shift so drastic, where you're, you're happy, you're finally speaking up, you feel the sense of freedom, this, this lift of the weight that's ever present on your shoulders. And then you realize that weight isn't actually gone.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, holy shit, I could be in prison, because I was here, I was here. Yeah, right.

[Lilin Lavin]
And that is what is so frightening that there are so many people in America trying to run to that type of environment, we saw that beginning, because there was a period where we were watching the news under, you know, Trump's presidency, and a CNN reporter was doing a report. And here come the police arresting him and his crew for doing their job, which was to report on what was happening for better or worse, to be there and to have a report on the situation. And the police came and arrested them, they were released.

But it was that sort of beginning towards that authoritarian slide. And very clearly, this regime has very much stated that these news operatives, these news operations, these individuals who have these opinions about me are all gone, they're done.

[Tommy Lavin]
If I get elected, shut down or something like that. And we also we also saw with the that whole upside down Bible, that sort of thing.

[Lilin Lavin]
Right. But we didn't know at the time, right, was apparently, behind the scenes, he had a conversation, we'll just shoot him in the leg. It's like a little flesh wound.

It's not a big deal.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. And people are like, sir, that you actually can't do that can't do that. You're not even supposed to do what they did, which was take the military and move people protest, you know, peaceful protesters and all of that out of the way, so he could have a photo op.

[Lilin Lavin]
So, so again, it's that slow slide toward the authoritarian, you know, dictatory crap. And he loved dictators.

[Tommy Lavin]
Oh, still loves me still, you know, I mean, that the whole MAGA Christian nationalist movement from and that's what, you know, people are like, well, if Trump, you know, if Trump passes away, or if Trump gets knocked out, I'm sorry to say, when Trump eventually goes, that's not the end. No, this is an entire movement in America. And the sad part is, if there was a younger, more charismatic person up there, and Trump's ego didn't get in the way, and he would have let somebody else run, there is a very good possibility, we would have fucking walked right into an authoritarian, theocratic government.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. And there was recently this really good in Texas Monthly piece about an individual, a billionaire here in Texas, called Tim Dunn. Tim Dunn is an incredibly charismatic, wealthy billionaire, who has his heart set on turning not only Texas, but that's where he's starting, because that's where he's at, where he is, Texas and much of the South into a theocratic, Christian nationalist, theocratic.

Yeah, he's not, he doesn't hold back about it. He's very forward about it. And his goal with his millions, and billions, billions, the millions that he gives out in large sum to different organizations that back conservative ideals, his whole goal is to create God's, you know, reign on earth.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, God's, I mean, Texas, he sees Texas as God's state.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yes. And the US as God's country, not hyperbole, the actual factual things that he works for, again, a billionaire that is very happy to spend his money. And he does it in an intelligent way.

So when he vets people, and when he has politicians working for him, they're given a grading scale. In order to get funding, they have to receive, I think it was 90s or 100s.

[Tommy Lavin]
Over a 70, at least, you're good in the 80s, 90s, and 100.

[Lilin Lavin]
Right.

[Tommy Lavin]
But once you fall below a 70, he primaries you out.

[Lilin Lavin]
Right. And very successfully does so. Anything above, you know, that 80 and 90, you receive funding.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah.

[Lilin Lavin]
And how much funding you get is depending on how much you vote for the things that he wants you to vote for. So it's all contingent on following his every whim. And it's incredibly intelligent, you're financially motivating individuals who need finance.

And they are literally lining their pockets with this man's money and selling all of their constituents to do it.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, there's a very good, it's long, because it's a very in depth article. This reporter did a really good job of going into it. Just Google Texas Monthly, Tim Dodd.

Dunn. Or Dunn. Yeah, Tim Dunn.

Tim Dunn. D-U-N, right? D-U-N-N.

Yeah, D-U-N-N. And you should find the article. And if that doesn't make you say, holy shit, what else is going on in these movements?

And it doesn't matter if you're a Satanist or not. I mean, as we talked a little bit last week about these two different bills in Arizona and Iowa, we, so it was kind of ironic, because a couple weeks ago, we talked about Arizona, and we said, wait, more bills will be coming.

[Lilin Lavin]
We didn't expect it to be coming quite so soon.

[Tommy Lavin]
Right. Then that week, Iowa came, which was a very similar bill, just a little bit more fleshed out and all of that. And then after that, we saw them do exactly what we said, hey, this is the example of, you don't have to be a Satanist.

If you don't go along with them, they're going to label you a Satanist. So the one senator that spoke out in the committee in Arizona and said, wait a minute, these are constitutional rights you're going after. It doesn't matter if you're a Satanist or anybody else, you're going after constitutional rights here.

Well, immediately, now he's labeled as a Satanist or working alongside of Satan and Satanism and stuff like that. So that is how quickly it happens.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah. And that's why I felt that this, this what happened, you know, because Putin is an entirely like giant coward. He couldn't even say the name of a man who he was terrified by because of what that man, what Navalny represented, and the threat of what he was representing to, to everything that he had built on his corruption and his fear mongering.

And it's the same thing. They labeled him a liberal and extremist, a drug addict, immoral, gay. Yeah.

They just went down the hall. You name it. It's the exact same thing they do every single time they associate it.

So we as Satanists are constantly saying, fine, you want to call us all these things. Fine. Call me whatever you like.

I'm still here. I still have rights. I'm going to stand up.

So I will take all the crap you're giving me and I'm going to just build a garden on top of it and see how you like that. And that is, that's the spirit that I was moved by. That's what I felt the relationship to this moment in history was.

I mean, we've seen it before with things like Mandela. We've seen it before in different individuals who said, no, enough's enough. I have to do something for these people.

They matter too much. The future matters too much. And we're here again.

The future matters too much. We can't sit idly by. We have to work together, whether or not we all agree, whether or not we can see eye to eye on tons of different topics.

Do you want your freedom? Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
I mean, that's, that's why I just, I kind of shake my head when I see, you know, people bickering over stupid shit. I'm like, you know, you're, you're, you're bickering over a denomination or, or, or whatever it is, you know, it's like, you know, let's, let's move past that. Look, maybe in the future, we can argue about that again.

You know, I look, I actually look forward to an environment where the only thing we have to worry about is arguing about who is a better insert, whatever, who's a better Satanist, who's a better this then, you know, I mean, that would be a wonderful environment to be back in, but we're not there.

[Lilin Lavin]
There's so many things I'd like to be able to just have discussions over fundamentally. And yet we can't even agree on the most simple things and, and make no mistake as a Satanist, we're not trying to instill our laws and values, our religion through legal systems as other religions are what, what we as Satanists want is for everyone to have the right to decide what's best for them and their lives. Even if that's hating me, if you want to hate me, go ahead.

What you don't have a right to do is force me to live according to your ideology. I don't have a right to force you to live according to my ideology. I want you to have the right to live according to your ideology and accept that that only applies to your life.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. And that's the, that's the part so many people don't seem to understand. They love the, the, you know, they throw up the freedom of religion, but they forget that means other religions, not just their religion.

And so, yes, as, as Satanists, yes, we, we fight things in court, but what we're fighting in court is not to pass new laws or anything. What we're fighting in court is to say, well, if they have this right, we have that exact same right. That that's, that's our rights.

That's what the constitution says. And so we deserve to have this. Right.

Just the same as anybody else.

[Lilin Lavin]
And for better or worse, you know, religious studies can be very beneficial to some individuals, including Christian studies, Jewish studies, Muslim studies, satanic studies, you know, insert religion here. There are positive things to each of those beliefs when applied appropriately to one's life. So I don't believe religion should be removed.

I don't think that it should not be a topic of conversation. I don't think it should not be provided educationally to individuals in a diverse way, where you're actually discussing all of them, the way they interact with one another, and what they mean individually. What I don't believe in, what I don't, won't support is that this is a Christian nation, Christianity is all there is, and one very narrow version of Christianity.

And, you know, that everyone has to just fall in line behind those beliefs. I will not support that. And I will not stand by while that is what's pushed on our society.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I mean, so, you know, we've said it quite a few times, inaction is still an action. Yeah, you can argue, well, we don't, we don't do anything, because we don't believe that well, you are doing something by doing nothing. Inaction is inaction, whether you like it or not, it is, it's just a simple fact.

And so if your action is inaction, fine, that that's your decision. But shut the fuck up when you know, you're complaining that something was taken from you or that you can't do this or that or whatnot, you're handing it to them on a silver platter,

[Lilin Lavin]
it being your freedoms, it being your rights, it being your independence, you are handing up all of these values that you hold so dear on a silver platter, every time you don't vote, every time you don't choose to do something that is supported by your deeply held convictions, when you sit idly by and do nothing but complain, you are in effect, doing everything you hate. Yeah, a little worked up there. Sorry.

One back, one back.

[Tommy Lavin]
Back it up.

[Lilin Lavin]
It's hard not to be impassioned. And I find it difficult not to have a great sense of emotional overwhelm when I discuss these things, because so much is on the line, whether or not you agree with me, whether or not I agree with you, you have the right to your opinion, as I have the right to mine, I will always fight for you to have the right to have a voice, even if I don't like what you have to say, unless you're calling for the death or harm of other people.

There's no protection to that. There shouldn't be protection to that. I cannot stand by and support taking away people's rights or wishing harm on other individuals.

It's not okay.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. So, I mean, I guess this news this week wasn't a surprise that it was coming. I mean, honestly, I was surprised that they hadn't killed him.

[Lilin Lavin]
I think the timing is interesting.

[Tommy Lavin]
The timing was interesting, because it happened right after a few statements were said, you know, basically, do whatever you want. You know, there was this whole thing that happened.

[Lilin Lavin]
And then I don't have in front of me, but I do read a lot of different things. So I apologize if I put the wrong author with it. But I believe Fiona Hill is an expert on Vladimir Putin, writes a lot of really interesting things.

And she talks about the intent with which he does the things that he does. So it's important to understand that this timing may seem innocuous, but more likely than not, I mean, there's a presidency coming up. Navalny's existence was very much, it flew in the face of everything he stood for.

In some ways, I think he believed it signaled weakness, which you cannot afford, especially as a dictator. And you can look through history, they all feared that, you know, Hitler, Mussolini, all of them. Putin felt that he was weak, if he allowed Navalny to exist, you know, throughout this, this next phase of his upcoming election.

So I mean, I think when you look at the world right now, there's so many things up in the air. And it's incumbent on each of us to educate ourselves about that, and to vote with a conscience about what the future should be for those relieving it too.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, I even saw on social media, I don't know how much this will actually happen in real life.

[Lilin Lavin]
Because again, take social media with a grain of salt.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. But I know there was a call to write in Navalny's name on the election.

[Lilin Lavin]
And I know that comes with great risk.

[Tommy Lavin]
That's what I mean. I don't know, given, I've never lived in Russia, I've never voted in Russia. So I don't know how the system works.

I don't know if like, then your name's attached to it and all of a sudden you can wind up in jail for doing that.

[Lilin Lavin]
I think that's what Navalny was trying to impress upon people is that living in itself is a risk. What are you living for? You know, it's not just what Russian individuals are fighting for today.

It's whether or not they'll have the ability to fight tomorrow. How much more oppressive will it get? Because it can always get worse.

It can always get worse. To say I don't want to rock the boat because I don't want things to get worse is a misnomer. You're missing the point.

They can always make it worse.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, look at Afghanistan. I mean, you know, it can. And even there, it can get worse.

Trust me. I mean, it can.

[Lilin Lavin]
History has shown us. And our country is not safe from this reality. It can always get worse.

I want you all to remember that we have the reins in our hands still right now today. We can still affect the course of this. We can still turn it before it goes too far down the road and we get stuck in the mire of oppression and authoritarian hate that we can't easily wiggle our way out and we need to work together to pull the wheels out of that mud.

We still have a chance to turn from that road.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. I mean, like I said, I just I kind of fall back on the point that I was trying to make a couple of weeks ago is some people look at those bills and they say, well, I'm not a satanist. So this doesn't matter to me or I don't like satanists or I'm a different kind of satanist or whatever the fuck you want to put in there.

At the end of the day, if you're doing something that a regime or or, you know, Christian nationalists, if they get power, don't like your satanist, whether you like it or not, you're satanist and you fall under that law.

[Lilin Lavin]
And other people they can deem satanic are also under that law. So think wisely, intelligently with a heart towards the future.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. Like I said, I just I found it disturbing that you had somebody like Navalny that was, you know, pushing freedom in a in a country like Russia against a dictator like Putin. And yet we have so many people in America running towards Putin.

[Lilin Lavin]
Also happy to follow behind him. An authoritarian type, or a man who embodies the worst of our country, the worst of what we have to offer, who stands there and makes up an absolutely ludicrous lie about a conversation he had with other leaders, where he states very blatantly that he would sell them off to the highest bidder. And unless they were willing to live through extortion, pay to play, they would just be at the whims of whoever decided to attack them.

That's not acceptable. The only time that any of these things have been invoked have been invoked on behalf of the United States. How dare we on a global stage stand there and pretend as though we're not the biggest beneficiary of these rights.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, Article Five was was only implemented once and it was after 911.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
And it was for the United States.

[Lilin Lavin]
So keep that in mind, you don't get to stand there and use something and then deny it to others with the threat of financial extortion.

[Tommy Lavin]
It's not a mafia.

[Lilin Lavin]
Oh, he sounds like the cheap movie version of a mobster.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah, like going into the shop. If you don't, you know, where's your protection money? Because if not, then he's going to come by and bust up your shop is exactly how it sounded.

And that's exactly what he was saying. So yeah, a little bit.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, we're getting a little bit off subject. But this is what it represented. What was on my mind when this news came across, I was really crushed.

I was heartbroken for so many reasons, for for the country, for his family, for all the people that looked at him as this symbol of freedom, just impending freedom on the horizon, and how crushing the news was. And I hope they don't lose heart because he said do not give up. He said keep fighting.

He said this is a sign of our strength. The fact that they would kill me because I represent you only shows how strong you are.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. And I know that's that's sort of why we had a couple other topics that we were we were debating this week, but quickly move to this just because how crushing this news was to you.

[Lilin Lavin]
It was he was someone that I felt very inspired by as an individual. Again, none of us are perfect. We all you know, have our areas where we could improve as people, but what he stood for, what he fought for, what he did, what he risked, what he lost, it really hit me strong.

I'm a person who saw what happened when one of our, you know, satanic monuments or not monument, but our satanic altar was was essentially destroyed. And it was just a symbolic display of Baphomet. It was not some worship to the dark Lord Satan who we don't believe exists in the first place.

But when I watched this insane man drive states away to to lay waste to something people had put their heart into to represent their congregation in a multi religious display setting where the nativity was not but a little ways away. And when I saw this, I felt so defeated in a way and it hurt me deeply. You know, the risk to our lives to our congregants to everything we do is under this scrutiny and under this danger and watching it happen to someone who represented everything opposing that mentality was just another just very strong reality hit to to know what these people are willing to do to take away our hope.

Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
So I don't know. I mean, I think anybody in any minority community, community, whether, you know, whether it's religious, whether cultural, whatever minority community, everybody's at risk right now.

[Lilin Lavin]
And that should be what brings us together.

[Tommy Lavin]
Yeah. And that's what I saw at least Navalny trying to do.

[Lilin Lavin]
Yeah, we may not always agree there may be things about what others stand for, I find detestable. And yet, I realize that the shared goal of trying to defeat what prevents us from being free is worth fighting for. And then I can go on from there when that is taken care of to then say, Hey, now let's discuss these other things that I don't think are good or healthy or right.

But you have to understand to get past that big hurdle. You have to work together toward that goal. Yeah.

[Tommy Lavin]
So I don't know, I think it's probably a pretty good place to end it.

[Lilin Lavin]
Just be mindful of your power. We all have that power. And together, we have it all the more magnified and amplified.

And we can capitalize on that. And we can use that to truly affect positive change. Yeah, we all we're all strong.

So. All right. Well, with that, yes, good morning, good afternoon, and good night to all of those who are listening.

And a hearty hail Satan and hail you.

[Tommy Lavin]
Hail Satan, hail you.